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Managing a mixed-age Sunday school class with 3-year-olds and 6th graders in the same room is no easy feat.
In this episode, we’re rolling up our sleeves to tackle a desperate (and common) plea for help. I’m on a crusade to stop the destructive blaming of kids, teachers, parents, and pastors.
Join me to learn how to get beyond managing behavior and create a safe place for everyone. You don’t need more kids or more volunteers to experience joy in mixed-age Sunday school.
Wouldn’t it be great to …
- anticipate goodness instead of dreading disruptions?
- help children experience the fruits of the spirit instead of frustration?
- enjoy parents, teachers, and pastors working together on the same page?
- know your classroom is a place where children feel safe and loved?
If that’s what you’re dreaming of, me too! Let’s do it.
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Listen On
Episode 015: Beyond Behaviors: Where Successful Mixed-Age Sunday School Begins
Intro 0:01
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to The Small Church Ministry Podcast.
Laurie Graham 0:15
Hey, and welcome back. I plan to talk about inventories and assessments this week, but something super pressing came up in our Facebook community. It is a common struggle in so many small churches so I wanted to take the time to address it today, give a little hope and some steps to great solutions too.
Before we dive into the topic at hand, I want you to know that if you’re in a small church, you are not alone. Most of the churches all around the world are under 100 people, you have friends who totally get it, there is hope and there is solution to small church struggles. The answer is not more people, more kids or more anything. You don’t have to grow bigger to have amazing, Jesus style impact. That’s what I’m all about.
Today, we’re going to be talking about a really common struggle in children’s ministry in small churches. If you’re not involved in children’s ministry, don’t go yet; I actually encourage you to stay tuned. We’re going to be covering some really foundational principles that cross into every ministry area, and even our lives in general.
I really believe if you know how to lead, you can lead in any area. If you know how to build a team, you can build any team. If you know how to love people, you can love any age group. If you know how to facilitate, you can facilitate any group. If you know how to motivate you can–well you kind of get the point. So, if you’re liking what you’re learning in these podcasts, please consider joining The Small Church Academy. That’s where we take all these leadership principles and we go deeper, about bite size.
Laurie Graham 1:46
The academy is where I’ll take your hand as much as you need it or want it and walk alongside you in your small church ministry training, teaching, feedback, individual support, and brand new next month, we’re beta testing our first learning cohort. So for those of you who like learning in community, in more of a relational environment with peer support, and deeper relationships, we’re totally going there. We only open the doors to new members four times a year, and the next one is coming up right around the corner so if you don’t want to have to wait another three months to check it out, go to TheSmallChurchAcademy.com and get on the list. The link is also in the show notes.
Today, let’s get to it. As I mentioned, we had a question in our Creative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook community just a few days ago, and as soon as I read it, I knew it would be a hot button and also highly triggering. It’s an issue that many of us have experienced. On the surface, it seems like a contained issue that just occurs one hour a week each week, and it seems like there should be an easy solution.
However, it is not as contained as you might think. It’s not contained to one hour, one room or even to the people who are physically present at the time. It causes broken relationships, burnt-out volunteers, program failure, and a crazy amount of stress. Most of us desire to be involved in life-giving ministries, right? Where we know that we’re making a difference. If this kind of thing leads to experiencing joy and feeling like we’re doing a great job, who wouldn’t want that?
The issue we’re talking about today is totally the opposite. It’s one of those soul sucking ongoing struggles that can bring even the most seasoned Jesus-loving people to the pit of despair. Here we go. The question in our Facebook community was this, and I quote, “What do you do about behavior issues in children’s ministry? Ours has gotten way out of hand. We have about 16 kids in one class; three-year-olds through sixth grade. The three-year-olds through second graders or non readers are at one table, and the third through sixth graders are at another table. Now before 2020 We had to separate classes, and then they’d come together just for a large group.
Laurie Graham 3:59
Since then, we’ve lost most of our volunteers and we can’t separate the classes. Other kids ministry support groups that I’m in, they all just say to close the children’s ministry until we get enough volunteers but that’s not an option. But our kids are all getting too comfortable and pushing boundaries. I had a parent tell me that they don’t like being told their child was bad. I never said their child was bad. And parents have said that our new three-strike rule that was put in place because students are not listening, trying to get out toys, running around during the lessons, hitting, kicking, punching others during the lessons. Well, this three-strike rule makes people not want to come back. Now the three-strike rule was put in place by a pastor because parents had been expressing concerns over the wildness of the children. We have tried earning prizes, Bible bucks, immediately calling parents, not saying anything to parents. I feel like I’ve tried it all and nothing works.”
That’s a lot, isn’t it? This person put this out to the Facebook community for suggestions and ideas looking for a solution. I don’t know about you, but when I read that post, I was like, wow, been there, done that, I feel it. I feel the frustration, I feel the overwhelm, intertwined with all the facts, there’s so much emotion.
Even if you’re not currently involved in children’s ministry, I just want to work through some problem solving with you. We’ve all been in situations where we’re overwhelmed, where we feel like we’ve tried everything and we’re on the edge. It’s so important to slow down and look at the facts. So, I’m going to pull out issues and facts that I can identify from this post, and like I said, we’ve all been there. There’s a lot, but I’m positive there’s a lot of facts that weren’t even mentioned.
Laurie Graham 5:42
Here’s the start. First off, we have clear behavior issues, an out-of-hand, unsafe environment. We’ve got 16 kids in one class, three-year-olds through sixth grade. That is a big spread. This is super common in small churches. We’ve got the COVID impact with less volunteers so they can’t be in two different groups anymore. We have mixed ages of nonreaders and readers, they’re separated at different tables. Canceling class is not an option for this church. Kids are getting too comfortable. I think that’s such an interesting statement because no one sounds comfortable to me, but we’ve got kids pushing, pushing boundaries, and students not listening. They’re getting out toys when they’re not supposed to. They’re not staying seated during the lesson. They’re running around. We have students hitting, kicking, and punching other kids during the lesson, parents expressing concern to the pastor about the wildness of the children.
In response, the pastor puts in place a three-strike rule, and parents still don’t like that and neither do the kids. They don’t want to come back because it’s so harsh. The kids who are getting hit, kicked, and punched don’t want to come back, prizes, Bible bucks, nothing is working, immediately calling parents not working. Some parents don’t want to hear when their child misbehaves, not saying anything to the parents isn’t working, so nothing is working.
For some of you, you may be thinking this is a behavior management issue, like a teacher who knew their stuff would totally manage the class and fix it all. I want to tell you, this is totally not true, and I want to walk with you through why nothing is simple about this situation. Beyond the facts and the issues, do you hear all the emotions of the teacher who posted this question? I hear them. I could be a little off, but I bet I’m close.
As I walk through these emotions with you, would you do me a favor? Try to think of a time when you felt these emotions because I have felt every single one of these in my life. The emotions I hear from the teacher include these: overwhelm, nothing’s working. I hear a feeling of being unsupported or maybe feeling alone or even abandoned. Volunteers left, parents don’t know what’s happening, don’t like what’s happening, the pastor stepping in, but maybe not supporting the impact of what’s happening.
Laurie Graham 8:01
I also hear some feelings of failure, or being unable or not equipped to fix it. How about the feeling of being powerless, kids are pushing boundaries, nothing I try is working, or feeling attacked or criticized, maybe even misunderstood or misportrayed as I’m trying to do my best? Feeling disrespected by students, parents, maybe the pastor. Feeling sad and hopeless, like kids don’t want to come back, I’m doing the best I can. Feeling exhausted, depleted, or just done.
If those feelings fit what you are feeling right now in your ministry, whether you are serving with kids or volunteering somewhere else, I just want to tell you, you are not alone. I have felt all those emotions. Your feelings are important. You are loved by God. There is support for you. You may not have found it yet, but you will. I also want to tell you that God is with you. Psalm 91 has been my place of refuge the past few months. At the end of that Psalm, God says this, He says He will call on me and I will answer and I will be with him in trouble.
Please hear that. We live in a fallen world and there will be trouble. God doesn’t say if you do everything right, you won’t have trouble. He says He will be with you in trouble. He also says in the next verse that He will deliver you and honor you. That is the promise if we remain dwelling with Him. He’s with you right now and with me, He’s walking with us and we are not alone.
I could totally sit with you and your feelings as long as you like, but for the sake of the podcast and providing creative solutions for small church ministry. Let’s dive in. The first thing I want to suggest as a solution is remember where Jesus is and what He cares about. If we want to do ministry like Jesus, I don’t think we can move ahead to a solution without asking this question like, where is Jesus in this? What does he care about? Imagine if Jesus walked into this situation, this chaotic classroom on a Sunday morning.
Laurie Graham 10:12
If you’re not driving, I want to invite you to close your eyes and truly, actually imagine. If you are driving right now, please do not close your eyes. However, for those of you who can safely close your eyes, imagine this situation, or maybe a different overwhelming situation that you’re in. I want you to imagine Jesus walking in the room. He’s not rushing, He’s not alarmed, He’s not triggered. He’s super calm. He’s confident. He’s full of love, and peace. You know what else He’s full of? Compassion, and empathy. He’s been there, too. He sees you. He sees those kiddos. He looks in their eyes, and He looks in your eyes.
I truly believe Jesus is not walking in thinking thoughts of condemnation for the teacher, or for the students misbehaving. He’s not walking in that room thinking you should have done this differently. He’s not thinking we need to put that kid in the corner. He is oozing compassion because that’s who He is. His heart is hurting for everyone involved. For the teacher who’s stressed and feels powerless. For the kids who are out of control. For the one who is hitting, He feels compassion. For the one who is being hit. He feels compassion.
This situation is less about the physical dynamics and more about the hearts involved. Jesus sees the hearts He always did. The woman at the well. The thief on the cross. The rich young man. The woman accused of adultery. Thomas when he doubted. The disciples in the crashing waves. So, where is Jesus now? He’s with you. He’s beside the teacher. He’s beside the child with the bad behavior. He’s beside the child who’s just trying to stay out of the way. What does He care about? Our hearts? All of the hearts.
Laurie Graham 12:21
Before you think, “So what? This isn’t practical, and it doesn’t help the solution.” I want to stop you and say, Yes, it does. It actually leads directly to the solution. It is completely foundational if we want to do ministry like Jesus. You see, so often we try to change behaviors, not just kids, but adults too and that’s not the core of the issue. You can totally influence behavior without changing hearts, bribe them, punish them, ostracize them, humiliate them, ban them, adults and children, we’ve all been there.
Changing behavior doesn’t lead to transformation, not the kind of transformation Jesus was about. The transformation Jesus was about? That leads to behavior change. It’s not the other way around. That’s why it doesn’t work at least not long term, to just manage classroom behavior. That’s a big reason kids leave the church; people walk away from Jesus. Maybe they were never even walking with Him and we didn’t realize it because they were behaving.
If we want to draw people to Jesus or abide with Jesus ourselves, we can’t do it without engaging our hearts. We can’t. We need to quit trying to change other people’s behavior in order to lead them to Jesus. It’s the same with ourselves. Just changing our behavior doesn’t change our hearts either. So many adult Christians today are struggling to feel close to Jesus while they’re checking off their daily quiet times, or at least trying to do their daily quiet times, right? We can change our behavior, and it doesn’t always affect our hearts. Transformation though, experiencing Jesus? That’s what causes us to want to change our behavior, and it empowers us to do it. Does that make sense?
In this chaotic, stressful, overwhelming, high-triggering situation, how do we help everyone experiencing Jesus? The first tip for you as the leader, as the volunteer, is just to imagine Jesus where He is and what He wants. My second tip is this, slow it all down. As I’ve mentioned before, we can’t find a creative solution if we’re in fight or flight mode. If we are all amped up in our emotions: cannot think creatively. God made us like this.
Laurie Graham 14:45
Every single person in this scenario is in a reactive mode, defensive or offensive. They’re still reactive. Parents, teachers, the pastor, even the students, intentional bad behavior is almost always reactive. Some behavior that many consider bad is actually accidental or non-intended, but most of it is reactive, even for the adults involved.
When you think of your very best self, when do you experience your very best self? Isn’t it when you’re rested, when you feel confident or when you feel supported? That’s when we’re acting like who we really want to be. Who God created us to be because we are made in His image. What happens when we’re stressed out? Are we our best selves? Not so much. When we feel attacked? Not so much. When we feel like a failure? No.
My tip number two is to slow it down. Let’s usher people out of fight or flight or freeze, out of attack or defend, usher people out of desperation or overwhelm. Practically, what does that look like? It looks like a break. You might not need to actually cancel the class, but you really do need to break the cycle. Just recognizing this aspect of a deeper cycle, the reactive cycle of what’s going on, can create a huge change in this Sunday school room.
I understand the pastor saying canceling is out of the question, so what could break the cycle and still continue the Sunday school class or the programming? Could you have a movie series? A playground day? Do some service projects in place of curriculum? Could you change the curriculum for a bit, experiment with some games or team building fun, just for a little timeout, maybe have the youngest come every other week and the oldest come on the in-between weeks, just do something different. Maybe not forever, but for a time because that cycle needs to be broken.
Number three: teach emotional awareness. This is a cultural shift in most churches. Emotional safety is not going to happen overnight if you don’t have emotional awareness, or if this is not part of your culture. A lot of people don’t even know what emotional safety is and many have never experienced it. In this situation, trust has been broken all over the place. No one is feeling emotionally safe. Kids and kids, kids and teacher, parents and teacher. Maybe parents and kids, maybe pastor and parents, maybe the pastor and the teacher. Teaching emotional awareness is a big step toward creating emotional safety.
Laurie Graham 17:29
How do you teach emotional awareness? First off, help everyone identify or name emotions. Helping people identify where their emotions are at in their bodies, like “Where are you feeling that and why? Does your head hurt? Are you breathing fast?” Start creating safety and conversations. Ask people “How do you feel about this?” Then listen. No fixing, no defending, just reflecting and understanding. Everyone wants to be seen and heard and valued. How do we do that in this situation?
If this type of training is outside your wheelhouse, I want to invite you to find somebody who could be part of the process. A school counselor, a therapist, somebody trained in trauma responses. If this is new to you, please be open. This is not just a bunch of psychological fluff. This is how God created us. If you haven’t yet checked out resources by Peter Scazzero, he does the Emotional Healthy Spirituality series. Lots of stuff. It’s great stuff for adults to learn and start practicing too.
Here’s a few ideas for a kids class practical ones that you can put into place even this week. Find a wheel of emotions just on the internet, you can just Google “wheel of emotions” or “emotion wheel” and print it out. Teach kids how to identify emotions. If you’ve ever seen the wheel of emotion, there’s a lot of big words on it. Some of them I’ve had to look up, so you’re gonna have to make it kid-friendly, or better yet, use the wheel and translate it to kid speak. Make your own wheel with kids’ emojis.
You can even have them draw what it looks like to be frustrated and make that part of the wheel, just the picture, or what it looks like to be scared, or to feel alone, to be disappointed. Please get beyond mad, sad, frustrated, or get to some of the deeper words that really identify the details of what they’re feeling. Another great idea is just to start each class by checking in. “Hey, what are you feeling today? Let’s go around the room. Where do you feel it in your body?”
Laurie Graham 19:36
You’re gonna have to listen. It’s gonna take time and you might not get it right the first day and you might not get your lesson completed. But, you’re going to be growing kids with emotional awareness of how God created them. Why He gave us emotions, how He speaks through emotions. You’ll be increasing their capacity for good relationships, for telling the truth, for being emotionally healthy themselves, and just for living well.
Another great idea is to put a prayer wall up in the classroom. This is an idea that came in, in response to the question posted in the Facebook community, but it is so good. Nicole Cup said this, and I quote, “We have a prayer wall in our classroom. It is craft paper stapled to the wall, floor to ceiling. We have verses taped on it about prayer. When my kids are misbehaving and I need to reset the room. We walk over to the prayer wall.” Did you catch that? She reset. That’s so awesome. She just broke the cycle.
Let’s get back to the quote. “The kids request prayer for the people and things in their lives. The kids care about each other. So they listen to each other. We take every request seriously. Now here’s why it works for us. 95% of my kids know how to behave during prayer. But you’ll have the 5% who doesn’t know, like the little girl who threatened to punch a boy, if you looked at her. She’s only five. This happened when we were in the middle of praying. We finished the prayer and then had a quick mini-lesson on being respectful when someone is speaking to God.
I always ask kids to volunteer to pray. They need to learn how to pray, the more they hear you and their peers pray, the more they’ll be willing to pray even if it’s not out loud. I can’t express how much the prayer wall has helped me. You may find the kids are acting out because their parents are arguing, their grandparents are sick, or they’re being bullied at school. The kids now have learned to watch for God to move in their situation and they come back sharing praises. We put a date next to all the prayers that have been answered.
Laurie Graham 21:12
The prayer wall has saved me many times. I hope that the help we are offering here encourages you and does not weigh down on you.” And that was her comment for this person who posted the question. She said, “I’m praying for you.” Thank you so much, Nicole. I can only imagine that Nicole’s lessons get hijacked now and then and she does not get the plans finished. But discipleship is underway nonetheless and maybe even more impactful than the curriculum that was planned.
If you’re following along, we’ve met Jesus in our situation to find out what He’s thinking. We are teaching emotional awareness. I suggest to you to seek out real solutions for creating safety for everybody; emotional, physical, relational, all of it. This is where boundaries and rules and redirecting behavior comes in. For those of you who’ve been chomping at the bit, just saying, “Hey, where are the rules and consequences going to come?” Here’s where they fit.
Before you put into place the tools that you know that change behavior, because they worked in your life, when you were growing up, or when you were parenting, please learn about learning. We all need to stop going on autopilot and learn about learning. So much has been uncovered in psychology and education in the way our bodies even work physically, about learning disorders, behavior issues, environments, and child development. We would all so much rather just jump up and say do this, here’s the three steps.
I want to just encourage you, knowing the “why” behind the behavior changes everything. I know this isn’t a quick route to learn about learning, but there’s no way to fix your classroom behavior in three weeks like that doesn’t exist. This is the effective route. When we get out of a feeling of desperation, which again puts us in that fight or flight. We can create some space to breathe, and learn and find real solutions.
Laurie Graham 23:24
For a few tools, I just encourage you to go on The Creative Little Church website. I recommend everything they’re written by Holly Sharp. Holly has written us many articles about behavior management. She is a behavior specialist and consultant. She is amazing. She has worked in small churches, she’s trained Sunday school teachers, she knows mixed ages in one group, and she knows all about learning challenges. So visit the creative little church website. Again, the link is in the show notes, and also consider prioritizing your curriculum a little bit less.
I’m all for teaching the Word of God, but when we focus on cramming tons of information into an hour with mixed ages, we have a tendency to miss the kids. We are so set on our schedule and our goals and our plans that the kids can become an interruption. Now this is not right. The goal is not finishing the lesson and the kids are not the interruptions. Just as the Sabbath was made for us and not us for the Sabbath. The curriculum is made for the kids, not the kids for the curriculum. We need to be loving hearts and teaching while being Jesus to kids. Instead of being laser focused on information, information is not the same as transformation. People who know about Jesus are not our goal. People transformed by Jesus? Now that’s a whole different thing.
Lastly, under the step of creating safety, boundaries and rules are really beautiful, but to do them well, they do not include shame. Many of our old school understandings of behavior, and even some of our new school understandings of behavior, they include a lot of shame. Please be very careful with this. This is not Jesus style, we cause a lot of damage and little hearts, when they begin to feel like they’re broken or there’s something wrong with them. It is usually unintentional, but please remember, intention does not equal impact. Our intention may be to love and protect, and the impact may be super damaging. Keep picturing a loving, compassionate Jesus by your side and I promise that will help.
I’ll be doing a full podcast soon on creative solutions to staffing Sunday school when you’re understaffed. We’re gonna talk about at least five non-traditional ideas that have worked well in small churches, to creatively move forward with incredible impact when your staffing is less than you want. This safety piece? This comes first. There is no reason to come up with creative staffing ideas, if there’s no trust, there’s no point. Practice all this first, and don’t jump ahead, the foundation comes before the walls.
Laurie Graham 26:18
The last step I want to talk about is bringing the adults together for sharing and for solution, but bringing them together safely. This is super sensitive because it has to be safe and honestly, we’re not used to this, but it will make all the difference. I truly believe this is how we’re supposed to not just do church, but this is how we’re supposed to be the church. Bringing up kids to know and love Jesus is a vital part of the body of Christ. It’s not a separate class. It doesn’t happen independently in a Sunday school room. It happens in community.
These kids in these situations, and in all our churches, they feel the tension. They see the anger, the frustration, the conflict, the disagreements between adults, teachers, pastors, whoever. They are well aware that this is not the sweet spot of love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, and self control. If we all want the same thing, and I really bet that all the adults involved do want the same thing. They want kids to be loved. They want kids to know Jesus. They want teachers to feel supported. They want the mission of the church to be seen. They want a safe environment for everyone, for kids, for volunteers, and for the parents. They want peace and joy and good relationships. They want to be a part of a team and not the enemies. Each of us wants to be seen and loved and valued.
How do we get there? How do we get to talking about this same thing that we all want? Can we agree on this at least? Can we create a safe place for adults to share safely, their feelings without accusation, without attack, without blame? To share their fears, to share what they want? Where listening comes before fixing, way before fixing, and loving comes way before doing. Again, if you don’t have the capacity to facilitate this type of meeting, is there someone you could bring in? Is there a study you could do to gather about safe communication, about listening? Because the truth is you are a team. So often we feel like we’re not, but if we’re all for the same thing, then let’s figure out how to act like it.
Laurie Graham 28:41
Can you imagine in this situation, the one that we outlined today, what a difference it would make to have all the adults rowing a boat in the same direction? The truth is the burden of making this mixed-age classroom work. It is not a sole burden of one teacher. We were created to live and serve and learn in community. Let’s figure out how to do that. Remember, if you as a leader are not in a good place like you don’t have the bandwidth to handle any more, you will not be able to think creatively. This fight or flight response we have is really really strong.
Here in Arizona. I’ll be out walking in the early mornings, and occasionally I see a coyote. Now usually they’re scrawny and skittish, and I don’t care at all, but occasionally there’s one that’s hanging a little too close a little too long. It makes me hyper-aware and I’ve got this instinct like I am ready to run. Yeah, I don’t really get “fight” in my head because I don’t think I’d win a fight, but that “flight” thing that’s totally for me.
You have to know when we’re in this mode, we’re not thinking of creative solutions, we’re not able to. It’s how God created us. Can you imagine if we took the time to think “what creative solutions could I come up with while this coyote is going to eat me” right? No, we need to get to a safe place, then we can start thinking of creative solutions because we were created to create. But, in a high stress solution, no one is thinking clearly, all the emotions are amped up, we got to get to that safe place.
There are so many solutions to behavior issues in mixed age classes. I want to remind you the problem isn’t the mixed age class. Mixed age classes can be the best learning environment ever. We can develop students as leaders, build amazing relationships, engage in learning projects, and lifelong transformation. The problem we’re solving isn’t the mixed age class. It’s not about having more kids, so we can divide up. It’s not even about having more volunteers. It’s not about COVID. It’s not about the kids being bad. It’s not about the teacher’s skill, and it’s not about bad parenting.
Laurie Graham 30:51
This is all about emotional safety and communication and relationships, and getting on the same page. It’s never about the program as much as it’s about the people. Isn’t this Jesus’ way? Kids are gonna misbehave, adults do too and we are going to react, and our reaction causes them to react and the cycle continues. They’re now reacting to our reactions. This is true in classrooms, leadership, teams, in marriage, whatever. Before long, all we see is our reactions and we miss the image of God that’s inside of every single one of us. If you’ve got people, you’ve got reactions, and you also have the possibility, and the hope of emotional safety.
Let’s stop the cycle. Number one, remember where Jesus is and what he cares about. Number two, slow it all down. Number three, create emotional awareness. Number four, seek out real solutions to creating safety for everyone. And number five, bring the adults together for sharing and for solution. How’s that for a start?
If you’re wondering what Facebook community this question originated in, we run a free Facebook community called Creative Solutions for Small Churches. Come join us there. We strive to keep it an emotionally safe, positive place for small churches everywhere. We’ve had members say it’s the most positive, helpful, encouraging Facebook community that they’ve ever been a part of. So come find us the link is in the show notes.
Laurie Graham 32:24
In addition, if you are lucky enough to be listening to this episode, right when it’s released, we have an amazing free online event coming up called Small Church Kidmin Plus Youth Ministry Conference. We host quarterly online free conferences just for small churches, focusing on specific ministry areas. The next one coming up is all children and youth. So if you haven’t been to one of our events before, you’re not going to want to miss it. We actually have people signing up for this one who aren’t even involved with the children and youth simply because they know our conferences and they know it’s going to be amazing, and they’re going to learn good stuff. You can check out our conferences at smallchurchsummits.com. Again, the link is also in the show notes.
Enough announcements, but there’s so much good stuff going on. I just don’t want you to miss it. For now though just take a deep breath and leave a rating or review of this podcast. Your encouragement makes a difference. Have a great week. Go be a light.
Intro 0:01
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to The Small Church Ministry Podcast.
Laurie Graham 0:15
Hey, and welcome back. I plan to talk about inventories and assessments this week, but something super pressing came up in our Facebook community. It is a common struggle in so many small churches so I wanted to take the time to address it today, give a little hope and some steps to great solutions too.
Before we dive into the topic at hand, I want you to know that if you’re in a small church, you are not alone. Most of the churches all around the world are under 100 people, you have friends who totally get it, there is hope and there is solution to small church struggles. The answer is not more people, more kids or more anything. You don’t have to grow bigger to have amazing, Jesus style impact. That’s what I’m all about.
Today, we’re going to be talking about a really common struggle in children’s ministry in small churches. If you’re not involved in children’s ministry, don’t go yet; I actually encourage you to stay tuned. We’re going to be covering some really foundational principles that cross into every ministry area, and even our lives in general.
I really believe if you know how to lead, you can lead in any area. If you know how to build a team, you can build any team. If you know how to love people, you can love any age group. If you know how to facilitate, you can facilitate any group. If you know how to motivate you can–well you kind of get the point. So, if you’re liking what you’re learning in these podcasts, please consider joining The Small Church Academy. That’s where we take all these leadership principles and we go deeper, about bite size.
Laurie Graham 1:46
The academy is where I’ll take your hand as much as you need it or want it and walk alongside you in your small church ministry training, teaching, feedback, individual support, and brand new next month, we’re beta testing our first learning cohort. So for those of you who like learning in community, in more of a relational environment with peer support, and deeper relationships, we’re totally going there. We only open the doors to new members four times a year, and the next one is coming up right around the corner so if you don’t want to have to wait another three months to check it out, go to TheSmallChurchAcademy.com and get on the list. The link is also in the show notes.
Today, let’s get to it. As I mentioned, we had a question in our Creative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook community just a few days ago, and as soon as I read it, I knew it would be a hot button and also highly triggering. It’s an issue that many of us have experienced. On the surface, it seems like a contained issue that just occurs one hour a week each week, and it seems like there should be an easy solution.
However, it is not as contained as you might think. It’s not contained to one hour, one room or even to the people who are physically present at the time. It causes broken relationships, burnt-out volunteers, program failure, and a crazy amount of stress. Most of us desire to be involved in life-giving ministries, right? Where we know that we’re making a difference. If this kind of thing leads to experiencing joy and feeling like we’re doing a great job, who wouldn’t want that?
The issue we’re talking about today is totally the opposite. It’s one of those soul sucking ongoing struggles that can bring even the most seasoned Jesus-loving people to the pit of despair. Here we go. The question in our Facebook community was this, and I quote, “What do you do about behavior issues in children’s ministry? Ours has gotten way out of hand. We have about 16 kids in one class; three-year-olds through sixth grade. The three-year-olds through second graders or non readers are at one table, and the third through sixth graders are at another table. Now before 2020 We had to separate classes, and then they’d come together just for a large group.
Laurie Graham 3:59
Since then, we’ve lost most of our volunteers and we can’t separate the classes. Other kids ministry support groups that I’m in, they all just say to close the children’s ministry until we get enough volunteers but that’s not an option. But our kids are all getting too comfortable and pushing boundaries. I had a parent tell me that they don’t like being told their child was bad. I never said their child was bad. And parents have said that our new three-strike rule that was put in place because students are not listening, trying to get out toys, running around during the lessons, hitting, kicking, punching others during the lessons. Well, this three-strike rule makes people not want to come back. Now the three-strike rule was put in place by a pastor because parents had been expressing concerns over the wildness of the children. We have tried earning prizes, Bible bucks, immediately calling parents, not saying anything to parents. I feel like I’ve tried it all and nothing works.”
That’s a lot, isn’t it? This person put this out to the Facebook community for suggestions and ideas looking for a solution. I don’t know about you, but when I read that post, I was like, wow, been there, done that, I feel it. I feel the frustration, I feel the overwhelm, intertwined with all the facts, there’s so much emotion.
Even if you’re not currently involved in children’s ministry, I just want to work through some problem solving with you. We’ve all been in situations where we’re overwhelmed, where we feel like we’ve tried everything and we’re on the edge. It’s so important to slow down and look at the facts. So, I’m going to pull out issues and facts that I can identify from this post, and like I said, we’ve all been there. There’s a lot, but I’m positive there’s a lot of facts that weren’t even mentioned.
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Here’s the start. First off, we have clear behavior issues, an out-of-hand, unsafe environment. We’ve got 16 kids in one class, three-year-olds through sixth grade. That is a big spread. This is super common in small churches. We’ve got the COVID impact with less volunteers so they can’t be in two different groups anymore. We have mixed ages of nonreaders and readers, they’re separated at different tables. Canceling class is not an option for this church. Kids are getting too comfortable. I think that’s such an interesting statement because no one sounds comfortable to me, but we’ve got kids pushing, pushing boundaries, and students not listening. They’re getting out toys when they’re not supposed to. They’re not staying seated during the lesson. They’re running around. We have students hitting, kicking, and punching other kids during the lesson, parents expressing concern to the pastor about the wildness of the children.
In response, the pastor puts in place a three-strike rule, and parents still don’t like that and neither do the kids. They don’t want to come back because it’s so harsh. The kids who are getting hit, kicked, and punched don’t want to come back, prizes, Bible bucks, nothing is working, immediately calling parents not working. Some parents don’t want to hear when their child misbehaves, not saying anything to the parents isn’t working, so nothing is working.
For some of you, you may be thinking this is a behavior management issue, like a teacher who knew their stuff would totally manage the class and fix it all. I want to tell you, this is totally not true, and I want to walk with you through why nothing is simple about this situation. Beyond the facts and the issues, do you hear all the emotions of the teacher who posted this question? I hear them. I could be a little off, but I bet I’m close.
As I walk through these emotions with you, would you do me a favor? Try to think of a time when you felt these emotions because I have felt every single one of these in my life. The emotions I hear from the teacher include these: overwhelm, nothing’s working. I hear a feeling of being unsupported or maybe feeling alone or even abandoned. Volunteers left, parents don’t know what’s happening, don’t like what’s happening, the pastor stepping in, but maybe not supporting the impact of what’s happening.
Laurie Graham 8:01
I also hear some feelings of failure, or being unable or not equipped to fix it. How about the feeling of being powerless, kids are pushing boundaries, nothing I try is working, or feeling attacked or criticized, maybe even misunderstood or misportrayed as I’m trying to do my best? Feeling disrespected by students, parents, maybe the pastor. Feeling sad and hopeless, like kids don’t want to come back, I’m doing the best I can. Feeling exhausted, depleted, or just done.
If those feelings fit what you are feeling right now in your ministry, whether you are serving with kids or volunteering somewhere else, I just want to tell you, you are not alone. I have felt all those emotions. Your feelings are important. You are loved by God. There is support for you. You may not have found it yet, but you will. I also want to tell you that God is with you. Psalm 91 has been my place of refuge the past few months. At the end of that Psalm, God says this, He says He will call on me and I will answer and I will be with him in trouble.
Please hear that. We live in a fallen world and there will be trouble. God doesn’t say if you do everything right, you won’t have trouble. He says He will be with you in trouble. He also says in the next verse that He will deliver you and honor you. That is the promise if we remain dwelling with Him. He’s with you right now and with me, He’s walking with us and we are not alone.
I could totally sit with you and your feelings as long as you like, but for the sake of the podcast and providing creative solutions for small church ministry. Let’s dive in. The first thing I want to suggest as a solution is remember where Jesus is and what He cares about. If we want to do ministry like Jesus, I don’t think we can move ahead to a solution without asking this question like, where is Jesus in this? What does he care about? Imagine if Jesus walked into this situation, this chaotic classroom on a Sunday morning.
Laurie Graham 10:12
If you’re not driving, I want to invite you to close your eyes and truly, actually imagine. If you are driving right now, please do not close your eyes. However, for those of you who can safely close your eyes, imagine this situation, or maybe a different overwhelming situation that you’re in. I want you to imagine Jesus walking in the room. He’s not rushing, He’s not alarmed, He’s not triggered. He’s super calm. He’s confident. He’s full of love, and peace. You know what else He’s full of? Compassion, and empathy. He’s been there, too. He sees you. He sees those kiddos. He looks in their eyes, and He looks in your eyes.
I truly believe Jesus is not walking in thinking thoughts of condemnation for the teacher, or for the students misbehaving. He’s not walking in that room thinking you should have done this differently. He’s not thinking we need to put that kid in the corner. He is oozing compassion because that’s who He is. His heart is hurting for everyone involved. For the teacher who’s stressed and feels powerless. For the kids who are out of control. For the one who is hitting, He feels compassion. For the one who is being hit. He feels compassion.
This situation is less about the physical dynamics and more about the hearts involved. Jesus sees the hearts He always did. The woman at the well. The thief on the cross. The rich young man. The woman accused of adultery. Thomas when he doubted. The disciples in the crashing waves. So, where is Jesus now? He’s with you. He’s beside the teacher. He’s beside the child with the bad behavior. He’s beside the child who’s just trying to stay out of the way. What does He care about? Our hearts? All of the hearts.
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Before you think, “So what? This isn’t practical, and it doesn’t help the solution.” I want to stop you and say, Yes, it does. It actually leads directly to the solution. It is completely foundational if we want to do ministry like Jesus. You see, so often we try to change behaviors, not just kids, but adults too and that’s not the core of the issue. You can totally influence behavior without changing hearts, bribe them, punish them, ostracize them, humiliate them, ban them, adults and children, we’ve all been there.
Changing behavior doesn’t lead to transformation, not the kind of transformation Jesus was about. The transformation Jesus was about? That leads to behavior change. It’s not the other way around. That’s why it doesn’t work at least not long term, to just manage classroom behavior. That’s a big reason kids leave the church; people walk away from Jesus. Maybe they were never even walking with Him and we didn’t realize it because they were behaving.
If we want to draw people to Jesus or abide with Jesus ourselves, we can’t do it without engaging our hearts. We can’t. We need to quit trying to change other people’s behavior in order to lead them to Jesus. It’s the same with ourselves. Just changing our behavior doesn’t change our hearts either. So many adult Christians today are struggling to feel close to Jesus while they’re checking off their daily quiet times, or at least trying to do their daily quiet times, right? We can change our behavior, and it doesn’t always affect our hearts. Transformation though, experiencing Jesus? That’s what causes us to want to change our behavior, and it empowers us to do it. Does that make sense?
In this chaotic, stressful, overwhelming, high-triggering situation, how do we help everyone experiencing Jesus? The first tip for you as the leader, as the volunteer, is just to imagine Jesus where He is and what He wants. My second tip is this, slow it all down. As I’ve mentioned before, we can’t find a creative solution if we’re in fight or flight mode. If we are all amped up in our emotions: cannot think creatively. God made us like this.
Laurie Graham 14:45
Every single person in this scenario is in a reactive mode, defensive or offensive. They’re still reactive. Parents, teachers, the pastor, even the students, intentional bad behavior is almost always reactive. Some behavior that many consider bad is actually accidental or non-intended, but most of it is reactive, even for the adults involved.
When you think of your very best self, when do you experience your very best self? Isn’t it when you’re rested, when you feel confident or when you feel supported? That’s when we’re acting like who we really want to be. Who God created us to be because we are made in His image. What happens when we’re stressed out? Are we our best selves? Not so much. When we feel attacked? Not so much. When we feel like a failure? No.
My tip number two is to slow it down. Let’s usher people out of fight or flight or freeze, out of attack or defend, usher people out of desperation or overwhelm. Practically, what does that look like? It looks like a break. You might not need to actually cancel the class, but you really do need to break the cycle. Just recognizing this aspect of a deeper cycle, the reactive cycle of what’s going on, can create a huge change in this Sunday school room.
I understand the pastor saying canceling is out of the question, so what could break the cycle and still continue the Sunday school class or the programming? Could you have a movie series? A playground day? Do some service projects in place of curriculum? Could you change the curriculum for a bit, experiment with some games or team building fun, just for a little timeout, maybe have the youngest come every other week and the oldest come on the in-between weeks, just do something different. Maybe not forever, but for a time because that cycle needs to be broken.
Number three: teach emotional awareness. This is a cultural shift in most churches. Emotional safety is not going to happen overnight if you don’t have emotional awareness, or if this is not part of your culture. A lot of people don’t even know what emotional safety is and many have never experienced it. In this situation, trust has been broken all over the place. No one is feeling emotionally safe. Kids and kids, kids and teacher, parents and teacher. Maybe parents and kids, maybe pastor and parents, maybe the pastor and the teacher. Teaching emotional awareness is a big step toward creating emotional safety.
Laurie Graham 17:29
How do you teach emotional awareness? First off, help everyone identify or name emotions. Helping people identify where their emotions are at in their bodies, like “Where are you feeling that and why? Does your head hurt? Are you breathing fast?” Start creating safety and conversations. Ask people “How do you feel about this?” Then listen. No fixing, no defending, just reflecting and understanding. Everyone wants to be seen and heard and valued. How do we do that in this situation?
If this type of training is outside your wheelhouse, I want to invite you to find somebody who could be part of the process. A school counselor, a therapist, somebody trained in trauma responses. If this is new to you, please be open. This is not just a bunch of psychological fluff. This is how God created us. If you haven’t yet checked out resources by Peter Scazzero, he does the Emotional Healthy Spirituality series. Lots of stuff. It’s great stuff for adults to learn and start practicing too.
Here’s a few ideas for a kids class practical ones that you can put into place even this week. Find a wheel of emotions just on the internet, you can just Google “wheel of emotions” or “emotion wheel” and print it out. Teach kids how to identify emotions. If you’ve ever seen the wheel of emotion, there’s a lot of big words on it. Some of them I’ve had to look up, so you’re gonna have to make it kid-friendly, or better yet, use the wheel and translate it to kid speak. Make your own wheel with kids’ emojis.
You can even have them draw what it looks like to be frustrated and make that part of the wheel, just the picture, or what it looks like to be scared, or to feel alone, to be disappointed. Please get beyond mad, sad, frustrated, or get to some of the deeper words that really identify the details of what they’re feeling. Another great idea is just to start each class by checking in. “Hey, what are you feeling today? Let’s go around the room. Where do you feel it in your body?”
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You’re gonna have to listen. It’s gonna take time and you might not get it right the first day and you might not get your lesson completed. But, you’re going to be growing kids with emotional awareness of how God created them. Why He gave us emotions, how He speaks through emotions. You’ll be increasing their capacity for good relationships, for telling the truth, for being emotionally healthy themselves, and just for living well.
Another great idea is to put a prayer wall up in the classroom. This is an idea that came in, in response to the question posted in the Facebook community, but it is so good. Nicole Cup said this, and I quote, “We have a prayer wall in our classroom. It is craft paper stapled to the wall, floor to ceiling. We have verses taped on it about prayer. When my kids are misbehaving and I need to reset the room. We walk over to the prayer wall.” Did you catch that? She reset. That’s so awesome. She just broke the cycle.
Let’s get back to the quote. “The kids request prayer for the people and things in their lives. The kids care about each other. So they listen to each other. We take every request seriously. Now here’s why it works for us. 95% of my kids know how to behave during prayer. But you’ll have the 5% who doesn’t know, like the little girl who threatened to punch a boy, if you looked at her. She’s only five. This happened when we were in the middle of praying. We finished the prayer and then had a quick mini-lesson on being respectful when someone is speaking to God.
I always ask kids to volunteer to pray. They need to learn how to pray, the more they hear you and their peers pray, the more they’ll be willing to pray even if it’s not out loud. I can’t express how much the prayer wall has helped me. You may find the kids are acting out because their parents are arguing, their grandparents are sick, or they’re being bullied at school. The kids now have learned to watch for God to move in their situation and they come back sharing praises. We put a date next to all the prayers that have been answered.
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The prayer wall has saved me many times. I hope that the help we are offering here encourages you and does not weigh down on you.” And that was her comment for this person who posted the question. She said, “I’m praying for you.” Thank you so much, Nicole. I can only imagine that Nicole’s lessons get hijacked now and then and she does not get the plans finished. But discipleship is underway nonetheless and maybe even more impactful than the curriculum that was planned.
If you’re following along, we’ve met Jesus in our situation to find out what He’s thinking. We are teaching emotional awareness. I suggest to you to seek out real solutions for creating safety for everybody; emotional, physical, relational, all of it. This is where boundaries and rules and redirecting behavior comes in. For those of you who’ve been chomping at the bit, just saying, “Hey, where are the rules and consequences going to come?” Here’s where they fit.
Before you put into place the tools that you know that change behavior, because they worked in your life, when you were growing up, or when you were parenting, please learn about learning. We all need to stop going on autopilot and learn about learning. So much has been uncovered in psychology and education in the way our bodies even work physically, about learning disorders, behavior issues, environments, and child development. We would all so much rather just jump up and say do this, here’s the three steps.
I want to just encourage you, knowing the “why” behind the behavior changes everything. I know this isn’t a quick route to learn about learning, but there’s no way to fix your classroom behavior in three weeks like that doesn’t exist. This is the effective route. When we get out of a feeling of desperation, which again puts us in that fight or flight. We can create some space to breathe, and learn and find real solutions.
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For a few tools, I just encourage you to go on The Creative Little Church website. I recommend everything they’re written by Holly Sharp. Holly has written us many articles about behavior management. She is a behavior specialist and consultant. She is amazing. She has worked in small churches, she’s trained Sunday school teachers, she knows mixed ages in one group, and she knows all about learning challenges. So visit the creative little church website. Again, the link is in the show notes, and also consider prioritizing your curriculum a little bit less.
I’m all for teaching the Word of God, but when we focus on cramming tons of information into an hour with mixed ages, we have a tendency to miss the kids. We are so set on our schedule and our goals and our plans that the kids can become an interruption. Now this is not right. The goal is not finishing the lesson and the kids are not the interruptions. Just as the Sabbath was made for us and not us for the Sabbath. The curriculum is made for the kids, not the kids for the curriculum. We need to be loving hearts and teaching while being Jesus to kids. Instead of being laser focused on information, information is not the same as transformation. People who know about Jesus are not our goal. People transformed by Jesus? Now that’s a whole different thing.
Lastly, under the step of creating safety, boundaries and rules are really beautiful, but to do them well, they do not include shame. Many of our old school understandings of behavior, and even some of our new school understandings of behavior, they include a lot of shame. Please be very careful with this. This is not Jesus style, we cause a lot of damage and little hearts, when they begin to feel like they’re broken or there’s something wrong with them. It is usually unintentional, but please remember, intention does not equal impact. Our intention may be to love and protect, and the impact may be super damaging. Keep picturing a loving, compassionate Jesus by your side and I promise that will help.
I’ll be doing a full podcast soon on creative solutions to staffing Sunday school when you’re understaffed. We’re gonna talk about at least five non-traditional ideas that have worked well in small churches, to creatively move forward with incredible impact when your staffing is less than you want. This safety piece? This comes first. There is no reason to come up with creative staffing ideas, if there’s no trust, there’s no point. Practice all this first, and don’t jump ahead, the foundation comes before the walls.
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The last step I want to talk about is bringing the adults together for sharing and for solution, but bringing them together safely. This is super sensitive because it has to be safe and honestly, we’re not used to this, but it will make all the difference. I truly believe this is how we’re supposed to not just do church, but this is how we’re supposed to be the church. Bringing up kids to know and love Jesus is a vital part of the body of Christ. It’s not a separate class. It doesn’t happen independently in a Sunday school room. It happens in community.
These kids in these situations, and in all our churches, they feel the tension. They see the anger, the frustration, the conflict, the disagreements between adults, teachers, pastors, whoever. They are well aware that this is not the sweet spot of love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, and self control. If we all want the same thing, and I really bet that all the adults involved do want the same thing. They want kids to be loved. They want kids to know Jesus. They want teachers to feel supported. They want the mission of the church to be seen. They want a safe environment for everyone, for kids, for volunteers, and for the parents. They want peace and joy and good relationships. They want to be a part of a team and not the enemies. Each of us wants to be seen and loved and valued.
How do we get there? How do we get to talking about this same thing that we all want? Can we agree on this at least? Can we create a safe place for adults to share safely, their feelings without accusation, without attack, without blame? To share their fears, to share what they want? Where listening comes before fixing, way before fixing, and loving comes way before doing. Again, if you don’t have the capacity to facilitate this type of meeting, is there someone you could bring in? Is there a study you could do to gather about safe communication, about listening? Because the truth is you are a team. So often we feel like we’re not, but if we’re all for the same thing, then let’s figure out how to act like it.
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Can you imagine in this situation, the one that we outlined today, what a difference it would make to have all the adults rowing a boat in the same direction? The truth is the burden of making this mixed-age classroom work. It is not a sole burden of one teacher. We were created to live and serve and learn in community. Let’s figure out how to do that. Remember, if you as a leader are not in a good place like you don’t have the bandwidth to handle any more, you will not be able to think creatively. This fight or flight response we have is really really strong.
Here in Arizona. I’ll be out walking in the early mornings, and occasionally I see a coyote. Now usually they’re scrawny and skittish, and I don’t care at all, but occasionally there’s one that’s hanging a little too close a little too long. It makes me hyper-aware and I’ve got this instinct like I am ready to run. Yeah, I don’t really get “fight” in my head because I don’t think I’d win a fight, but that “flight” thing that’s totally for me.
You have to know when we’re in this mode, we’re not thinking of creative solutions, we’re not able to. It’s how God created us. Can you imagine if we took the time to think “what creative solutions could I come up with while this coyote is going to eat me” right? No, we need to get to a safe place, then we can start thinking of creative solutions because we were created to create. But, in a high stress solution, no one is thinking clearly, all the emotions are amped up, we got to get to that safe place.
There are so many solutions to behavior issues in mixed age classes. I want to remind you the problem isn’t the mixed age class. Mixed age classes can be the best learning environment ever. We can develop students as leaders, build amazing relationships, engage in learning projects, and lifelong transformation. The problem we’re solving isn’t the mixed age class. It’s not about having more kids, so we can divide up. It’s not even about having more volunteers. It’s not about COVID. It’s not about the kids being bad. It’s not about the teacher’s skill, and it’s not about bad parenting.
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This is all about emotional safety and communication and relationships, and getting on the same page. It’s never about the program as much as it’s about the people. Isn’t this Jesus’ way? Kids are gonna misbehave, adults do too and we are going to react, and our reaction causes them to react and the cycle continues. They’re now reacting to our reactions. This is true in classrooms, leadership, teams, in marriage, whatever. Before long, all we see is our reactions and we miss the image of God that’s inside of every single one of us. If you’ve got people, you’ve got reactions, and you also have the possibility, and the hope of emotional safety.
Let’s stop the cycle. Number one, remember where Jesus is and what he cares about. Number two, slow it all down. Number three, create emotional awareness. Number four, seek out real solutions to creating safety for everyone. And number five, bring the adults together for sharing and for solution. How’s that for a start?
If you’re wondering what Facebook community this question originated in, we run a free Facebook community called Creative Solutions for Small Churches. Come join us there. We strive to keep it an emotionally safe, positive place for small churches everywhere. We’ve had members say it’s the most positive, helpful, encouraging Facebook community that they’ve ever been a part of. So come find us the link is in the show notes.
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In addition, if you are lucky enough to be listening to this episode, right when it’s released, we have an amazing free online event coming up called Small Church Kidmin Plus Youth Ministry Conference. We host quarterly online free conferences just for small churches, focusing on specific ministry areas. The next one coming up is all children and youth. So if you haven’t been to one of our events before, you’re not going to want to miss it. We actually have people signing up for this one who aren’t even involved with the children and youth simply because they know our conferences and they know it’s going to be amazing, and they’re going to learn good stuff. You can check out our conferences at smallchurchsummits.com. Again, the link is also in the show notes.
Enough announcements, but there’s so much good stuff going on. I just don’t want you to miss it. For now though just take a deep breath and leave a rating or review of this podcast. Your encouragement makes a difference. Have a great week. Go be a light.