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Join us as Matt Hernando shares some of his biggest lessons learned in tech ministry, including how he went from being willing with no experience to becoming the one who trains others to serve.
Matt is the Multimedia Ministry Leader at Crossings Church Innerbelt, a church plant in St. Louis, Missouri.
Listen in to hear…
- What motivates him to keep serving
- How you can overcome a few of the biggest challenges in small church tech
- Why great tech ministry requires practice, just like baseball
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Website: https://mattchernando.medium.com/
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Episode 039: How To Teach Yourself Tech When There’s No One Around To Learn From – With Matt Hernando | Part 5 Worship & Tech Series For Small Churches
Intro 0:01
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to The Small Church Ministry Podcast.
Laurie Graham 0:15
Hey, welcome back to The Small Church Ministry Podcast. We are in the middle of a series all about worship and tech for small churches. If you are finding us for the first time, we are seriously excited about sharing creative solutions and strategies just for small churches! There is no reason to be hanging in your head in frustration if you’re a small church, because small church ministry is not less ministry than large churches, it is just a different kind of ministry. So, hang with us if you want to discover and uncover creative solutions to challenges you’re facing, whether you’re in a church of 20 or 200.
Laurie Graham 00:46
So as I mentioned, we’re in the middle of a series all about worship and tech in small churches, and I have an amazing guest with us today who totally gets it. He gets small churches and the struggles they face, and he also gets tech, which is good because I don’t. I get the worship part, but not the tech part. So I’m so happy to have Matt here with us. He is a multi-ministry leader for The Crossing Church Innerbelt in St. Louis, Missouri, and he has 100% volunteer, as most of us are in small churches. So, I’m so excited for him to share part of his journey with you, not only in the tech ministry, but also I don’t know if I told you, I was going to ask you this, Matt, but about how volunteering, like directly impacted your relationship with Jesus and the church, because I know that’s part of your journey. So we’re going to talk specifically, also, about how to train a tech team if there’s no one around to train anybody, because that is one of the biggest things that so many small churches have been saying to us as we’ve been talking about our upcoming conference, just having this equipment and not really knowing how to do it, or how to use it, and there’s no one around to teach them. So, anyway, Matt, I am so excited to talk to you today. I know you’re in the middle of a busy day, what is your biggest project for today? Like what’s going on with you today?
Matt Hernando 01:53
So we are, we are a church plant, and we’ve been breaking down, setting up every Sunday for the last eight years, and this year, God has blessed us with an opportunity to get our own building. And so today, my project is working in the building, putting down some tiling, flooring, whatever, whatever I got to do to get that building ready to go for our first service.
Laurie Graham 02:19
Oh, I love this so much, because you’re doing tiling as the tech team guy, right, and this is small church ministry, isn’t it?
Matt Hernando 02:26
Yeah. I mean, that’s not even, I mean, landscaping, whatever you need me to do. I’ll do it.
Laurie Graham 02:32
I love it so much. So, I didn’t realize you have a building now. Like, that’s super exciting that you’re getting to move into it, but you’ve been breaking down for eight years, right? Every single week?
Matt Hernando 02:41
Every single week. Yep.
Laurie Graham 02:42
Tell us about your church a little bit and the story there.
Matt Hernando 02:45
Yeah. So um, like you said earlier, we’re The Crossings Innerbelt in St. Louis, Missouri. We’re one of four church plants from The Crossings Church over in Wentzville, Missouri, and we planted about eight years ago and we started with about 30 of us, and then now our average attendee on Sundays between members, guests, and kids is about 150. And, yeah, I mean, we, we break down and set up, we rent out a school gym. We, the last three years, we’ve been fortunate enough to have the same rental, but prior to that, I mean, we were probably using a new venue, every month. So, it was, it was, it was hard, but it was a great opportunity to learn and really feel, feel the investment of what a church plant really means.
Laurie Graham 03:39
Well, and you don’t just get small churches, you also get the whole portable thing. I actually just had somebody reach out again on our site saying, “could you give us more resources for portable churches,” because even when it comes to like outreach programs, they’re like, we don’t have a building, we don’t have a property, the park will charge us $1,000 to meet there. And so there’s so many different dynamics, not just in tech, but just in not having a location. So, so you’ve seen it all. So you were 30 and now you’re a little over 100, and so, can you also just mention this, I think you said that your church vision is to always be planting so you don’t ever expect to grow into a big church, like, you, that’s not part of the vision, right?
Matt Hernando 04:17
No, and it hasn’t been and I don’t, you know, I think that so even, even in our church right now, we, we really take pride in, in our small groups. We try to keep it small for the, the authenticity part of it, the intimacy part, and just everything about just being small. And so, you know, the blessing in that is that we from The Crossings wide vision is that we don’t want to get too too big because, you know, once you get to a certain point you start losing some of that accountability that we believe is really effective into, effective in our relationship with, with God as a small group. So, I think, I don’t want to be breaking any news here, but I think we’re getting ready to plant another one. So, like I said, we’re four in now from Wentzville, and I think the plan is, so like, every, every church plan so far has come from Wentzville, but I think the vision is that, you know, the Innerbelt, like our church and our other plants can contribute to the next team, but obviously, we’re still kind of small, but that’s like the greater vision of it.
Laurie Graham 05:25
Yeah. And so as, as you’re talking, there’s people listening right now who say, “Oh, he doesn’t really get small churches, because he’s from a big church, and so there’s all that support and all that help.” Because there really is, small churches, there’s not just like one, one community of small churches. Like every small church really is uniquely different from every other small church, and there’s so many places in the church planting situation where you really are starting with 30, even if you do have, like a larger church. Have you seen a difference with that or do you still feel like you have a lot of the small church struggles?
Matt Hernando 06:00
I mean, even from the The Crossings, Wentzville, they actually are a church plant too, from another church and they they started with about 32. Overall, we try to keep things small. I mean, I don’t think that we intentionally say like, “Oh, we’re too big, we gotta go,” but like, I think it’s a good thing is like, we have the opportunity to do so. So let’s, let’s do it, you know? And I think there’s, there’s where you, where you caution is that you don’t want to do it too much because then you have the consequence, or the consequences of dying from not having that accountability, right? So it’s a balance between, like, making sure people are equipped to do so spiritually and, and mature enough to do so, but also like, the willingness to do it, right? And so yeah, I feel it sometimes, but I think I trust our leadership enough to know that we’re, we won’t get to the point intentionally of being big. Obviously, you know, if the fruit grows, the fruit grows, right? Like, but it comes from our vision of, ya know, reaching out and seeking and saving the lost
Laurie Graham 07:10
You know, there’s, there’s something about we really believe that God works in every size church, like every sized church, but the goal isn’t to look like the big church, the goal is to imitate Jesus, and to do ministry that’s relational, and that’s grounded. And yet, when you’re in a church of 30 or 40, there’s a lot of struggles that happen, and I think just, you know, losing our focus can really just throw us off. Can you tell us a little bit about your story with your church? I know, I already mentioned you’re the multimedia, you know, tech leader. What does that look like for you, and were you an expert when they found you?
Matt Hernando 07:45
So what does that look like for me? So overall, as a media ministry leader, obviously, I’m in charge of meeting also the media needs for like our events throughout the week. I also am in charge of making sure that we have the tech for, like our retreats. We do like an annual ladies retreat, men’s retreat, marriage retreat, and, consequently enough, I somehow inherited the registration aspect of it. So, I do that, and then, you know, just meeting, meeting whatever needs in between. But, I will say, that even to this point, I’m, I’m far from an expert, to be honest, I, I, I can, I will publicly admit that there are definitely way more talented individuals around me that are near, that we could be, you know, giving them the opportunity too and, you know, I’ll be the first one to admit as well, like, as long as their willingness to serve in their, you know, relationship with, with God is there, like, I’ll hand , them over the keys. Like, I acknowledged that they’re, they’re way more talented,ut I think really, is that when I first started, I think it was just because I was just willing, you know, and I was eager to serve. And that’s, that’s where, you know, it separates the people from, like, being part of the ministry or not.
Laurie Graham 09:15
Yeah, yeah. So, talk about this willingness to serve when you don’t really know what you’re doing. Because, as I mentioned, this is one of the biggest struggles with tech and small churches. I was talking to somebody the other day from a rural church, and I was trying to suggest. So I’m in, I’m in a big city. I’m in Tucson, a city of a million and so I remember reaching out to the people who worked at Guitar Center and saying, “Hey, can you come and help me” and, and we had somebody come in and do some training, and this person said, we don’t have that, we’re literally in the middle of nowhere. I don’t know how to help my tech person. They don’t know what they’re doing, and that is one of the really most common things so I know you did a lot of, you did a lot of like on the job training yourself with no one helping you. So, how did you learn what you know, and what would you suggest to people who don’t have that mentor who’s around to show them?
Matt Hernando 10:01
So, first off, I’ll admit, I kind of had the same attitude. I mean, I’m from, I grew up in New York City. So I mean word. I mean, New York City’s New York City, right? And so when I moved to St. Louis, or even Wentzville, that’s, you know, 45 minutes away from the city, like, where would I, like, the nearest Guitar Center is 45 minutes away, like, where would I get these resources from, right?So I have the same perspective of, like, you know, what do I do? And I think, honestly, it’s, well, there’s, there’s two, there’s two dimensions to it, is one is, are we, are you, I was overthinking a lot of things. I think there’s this false notion that media is overwhelming, and there are aspects of it that can be overwhelming, but, you know, if you can, if you focus on the basics, it’s really like a simple setup in terms of just meeting very foundational or basic media needs, right. But then in terms of growing that, you know, there’s, nowadays there’s resources on on YouTube, there’s, you know, Facebook groups of other church tech leaders that you can join, and, you know, you may not agree with everything that they may say in terms of how to run a media ministry in general, but I think you can take the, the technical aspect of it, and then make it your own. Right? But also, like, I think people underestimate the value of, of practice, right? Like, I grew up playing baseball, and, you know, my coach would always say, like, you know, you don’t, when you’re at the game, like, you’re, you’re using what you’ve practiced to use in the game, in terms of like perfecting, right? You’re not using the game to practice. And so like, if Sunday’s like my equivalent to a game, like, what am I doing, you know, Friday, Saturday, to prepare for that, right? Like, not, not just showing up on Sunday, and, and just doing it there, you know, and, and so, practice, you know. I spent a lot of Saturday nights, date nights with my wife, setting up and saying, like, “Hey, like, I’ve been having a hard time with this XLR cable. I don’t, I don’t really know why it’s doing this. Do you mind if we, you know, if we go set up the night before, and just, you know, try to, try to work it out, or do you mind if I set it up in the living room? Right, like, you know, stuff like that.
Laurie Graham 12:25
I was gonna ask you how you practice, because I know you had said in one of our, you know, one of our conversations that you would practice during the week, I’m like, how do you practice? Because I’m thinking you need the singers there, and by the way, you lost me at XLR cable, because, for me, it’s like the knobs and the slidy things. Like, I understand that things are connected with steaks and cables, but that’s about all I got. So, so you really did a lot of self teaching, though and also self practice, and I think that’s amazing! I just, kudos to you for even, I guess why? Why did you, how did you get the feeling that your job was that significant? Because I know a lot of people really just do think in the tech ministry, they just need to turn it on and make sure people can hear it. And for me, I’ve noticed a lot of different things, that it’s not really, it’s not really that it’s, it’s almost like an instrument, you know? Like, there’s so much beauty that can happen with that, but how did that value go up in your mind that you even wanted to practice?
Matt Hernando 13:20
Yeah, I mean, going back to the, to the beauty part that you had just mentioned, right? I think media ministry, for me, is not just media ministry, you know? I think, I look back at the fruit of services, right? I look, I can specifically point out to people in my congregation now that their first service was like, the first impressions to the, their, now, relationship with God, right? And so you look at that, and you’re like, you’re a big aspect of that, like you contribute to the first impressions of their first and their first day of pursuing a relationship with God. And, you know, I think of more about the souls of those that come through our doors, right? Like, like, why do I practice or why do I want to do media ministry, right? And I think, and I will admit that I didn’t have that perspective at first, and I think that’s where I really got burned a lot and I kind of felt a lot of the burnout, but the reason why I’m able to pur, you know, pursue and push through is because, like, I can think of my right-hand man in the ministry, media ministry now. Like I remember his first service and thinking like, you know, he loved it enough that he was, he like, he loved church enough, and he had a, like a interest in media in general. And so like, because I was able to give him that good first experience, he was able to pursue a relationship with God and then use the talents that God has blessed him with to help me and my media ministry. And so, when you’re able to see it full circle, I mean, there’s like, what else? Like there’s nothing better, right? Like, there’s, like, there’s nothing more that you could want than to see someone have the eternity with you, right? So.
Laurie Graham 15:14
I have goosebumps right now. I mean, why don’t we tell people this when we’re giving them opportunities to serve? Like, you know, I think so many times we’re recruiting people to do a task instead of being part of the vision. So I love that you, like, have a picture of the vision and you said you didn’t have it when you started? How did that happen for you?
Matt Hernando 15:32
The big mistakes, the lot of mistakes. I think, too, I think, ultimately, the common theme in my life is, is the prideful tendencies that I have. I think when I first started, obviously, there was an opportunity to serve, but I really liked the attention that I got from serving, like, oh, he saved the media ministry, and, you know, he was willing, and I just, I think I genuinely seeked the attention more than I seeked the service opportunity. And eventually, I got burned by that because, you know, then the worship team comes in, and it’s like, “Hey, I’m not sounding good. Like, can you fix this?” or like, “Hey, media is not doing so well, like, you know, can you do that?”or, I promised I was gonna, like, tease my, my, my senior minister, but like, he would give us a sermon, like two minutes before service, right? And so like, those, those things, were not people pleasing, right? They didn’t meet the needs of me feeling full because of my desire to people please. And so then I got, I guess, I got called out or whatever, and had a heart to heart with one of my best friends. And was like, you know, you know, so why are you serving? Like, are you serving it because you want the attention for people? Are you serving it because you, like, want this relationship with God, and you know how it benefits the kingdom? And I think that really spoke to me, and I think from then, that point on, I still had my, I won’t lie, I still had my, my tendencies, but I think I can always go back to that conversation and say, like, where’s my heart at right now? You know, is it because I’m trying to seek the attention or is it because like, I can see the fruit of this ministry?
Laurie Graham 17:20
Oh, I love it, and accidentally, this was totally not on purpose, but I think we just gave a sneak peek of your breakout session at the conference, didn’t we?
Matt Hernando 17:28
Yeah. Yeah. That’s good. Good marketing, I guess.
Laurie Graham 17:32
Not, totally not on purpose, but thanks for sharing that and thanks for being vulnerable about that. You know, I think as humans, we need to take all of us to Jesus, not just our hands and our feet, right, you know, not just what we’re doing, but who we are. And I love that you’re willing even to share your growth, but if you are listening to this, and it’s live, like during what is this year, 2022? I keep thinking it’s 2023. It’s really crazy. But if it’s 2022, and it’s not October, yet, we do have a worship and tech conference coming up, and Matt is one of our speakers. So we’re so excited to, just to have you there and we’re really excited about the conference because, to my knowledge, there has never been a worship and tech ministry conference for small churches, like for small churches. Like we tried to find one and we can’t really, we haven’t found one. So it’s one of those things where people in small churches go to conferences, and they leave going “None of that applied to me. I can’t, I can’t I just wasted a bunch of money.” And our conferences are free. So we’re so excited, but speaking of the conference and what we’re talking about today, what do you think are some specific challenges in small churches as opposed to the big ones? So for me in tech, I think money and talent, but I don’t really know, tech. So am I missing anything there? I guess people, too.
Matt Hernando 18:42
Yeah, I mean, I can, I could probably go on the rest of the podcast talking about the challenges.
Laurie Graham 18:50
What are some of the top ones that you’ve seen, like in a small church, that would be unique to a small church setting?
Matt Hernando 18:54
I think venue is, is one of the biggest ones. I think, you know, like I said earlier, the first couple years that we struggled with, was having to set up at a new venue every month, you know, and then being accommodating to the venue, right? Like, sometimes we when we rent out this gym that we’re at right now, sometimes they have an event the night before, and they’re like, they leave chairs out or the tarps out or the bleachers out, right. And so I’d say venue is one. I think the vision is another one, you know, I think when we’re recruiting, I think I struggled with looking for talent versus willingness at first. I think that, that really was a crutch to my growth is that, oh, you’re, you’re not talented enough to join my ministry, and so when I was doing it by myself, I realized like, am I really looking for talent or am I just looking for opportunity or availability or willingness, right? And so, I would say like, those are the two, two biggest struggles if you, if you would ask me. I know, I know, budget is another one, but, you know, I, I really try not to focus on budget, you know, I try to, I try to really make the best of what I have and be grateful for what I have. And, you know, if it’s, if it’s not a lot, you know, it’s more than than nothing, right? And so I think being the best that you can be with what you have is something that I can always go up to, when my time comes, like I can go up to the Gates of Heaven and say, like, “Lord, I, faith, I’m a good, faithful servant. I did with what I, I did what I could with what I had, and I can, I can live with that versus like, I’m not gonna go there and say, like, Oh, I didn’t have the best microphone, or I didn’t have the best speakers, right? And so I think those are the top three, in my opinion.
Laurie Graham 20:51
Yeah, and you know, you talked earlier about, you know, people’s heart changes, and how tech ministry is really part of bringing people to Jesus. And, you know, when I think about that, I’m really reminded that people don’t come to Jesus because the microphone is great. They come to Jesus because they see the unity and the joy in the body of Christ. Like, I really believe, I know Jesus did a bunch of miracles, but I don’t think that’s why people stuck with Him. I think the people that stuck with Him saw something different in Him, like the way He related to people, the way He related to the Father, you know? Because the miracles are like, you know, we do an egg hun and we get, you know, 300 people at a, at an event, you know, your church of 50 gets 300 people, but they don’t come back on Sunday. Well, that’s not, people don’t need more entertainment or more glitz, especially today, and when your tech team or your worship team or your, you know, your community of believers, when they are so other like, wow, I’ve never experienced a body of people like this. I really think that’s what draws people to Jesus. I don’t think it has anything to do with the equipment. I think we can worship with no equipment.
Matt Hernando 21:53
Yeah. I mean, if you have to, you have to, right? I think the going back to what you said earlier, earlier on, you know, one of the things that I really feel like is the success of like, my tech ministry, and this is not like, in any way bragging about anything is that the, the culture of being, being able to be vulnerable with like, your volunteers, like, right? Like, I’m gonna be honest, like, I’ve made a lot of mistakes, and they’re, my right-hand, man, he’s like my voice of reason, and, like, I, we always think the opposites and that’s, that’s why I pull him closer because, like, he’s able to see the things that I’m not able to see. But, you know, I’ve had times where I’ve had to go up to him and say, like, hey, I made a mistake in the way we set up, like, you know, I’m sorry about that, you know, next time we can do this better. And I think if you ask him, he would say like, those moments are the reasons why he’s stuck around, was that you’re, you, we’re not leading this ministry, media or church, through perfectionism. It’s, it’s through the vulnerability of being able to be authentic and honest with other things and just helping each other grow. And there’s no shamein any of that, you know? It’s, it, you’re not called to be perfect, you’re just called to be authentic. And, and so that’s, that’s, that’s just contributes to the growth of both media ministry and your church.
Laurie Graham 23:20
I love it! I am loving talking to you. I can’t believe we are going to have to stop our conversation at some point here, but we’re gonna keep going. So let’s get back to the main focus of the podcast, because there’s some people saying, “Wait, I want to know what to do if I don’t know what to do.” So, what advice would you give somebody who’s in a church, they don’t have an expert, they are willing, like, let’s say somebody like you really was willing to put some time and energy into this, where should they start? You mentioned a couple things earlier, but I just want to unpack them a little bit. One thing you mentioned was like Facebook communities. Do you have any, like, ones that you would recommend or how do they find those Facebook communitie who might help them? What would they Google or search?
Matt Hernando 23:59
Yeah, um, I don’t necessarily have one that I would actually, like, fully recommend in terms of like, you know, I think just looking at the overall picture, but there are other, so like, there is sound tech groups that are not even, like media ministry related, it’s just more so like, how to be a sound engineer for a concert or how to be like a sound engineer for, you know, setting up an event or you know, just looking at some of those. Like, how to, like soundboard group, Facebook groups, right? Like you they post on there, like, “Hey, I have a troubleshooting issue with a soundboard.” So it’s just a collective ness of gathering bits and pieces of all these different groups that are maybe, I guess, more worldly and then just using that to benefit the kingdom. But I would say,
Laurie Graham 24:50
I have found, I found people on the internet, like I know a lot of people have all these negative images of Facebook and the internet, but I have found so much generosity among Christian believers on the interne. Like people have helped so many people! We have a Facebook community called Creative Solutions for Small Churches, and I’m telling you, people post things in there and everyone’s like, I’m gonna help, I’m gonna help, and they’re like, how are all these people helping me? It’s almost like small churches all around the globe are like saying, “Yeah, we’re gonna help you because we get it, we know what it’s like.” So I love that you’ve used those, and I love that you’re recommending just sound tech groups that are outside the church arena, because sometimes there’s an awful lot of talent there that we can be learning from. Okay, so we’ve got Facebook groups, you mentioned YouTube. How do they find what they need on YouTube?
Matt Hernando 25:35
As, as honest as I can be, I literally would Google YouTube why, like how to plug in an XLR cable or, you know?
Laurie Graham 25:44
Or what is an XLR?
Laurie Graham 25:45
So we just heard the offer, we’re gonna do that one.
Matt Hernando 25:45
Or what is an XLR cable right? Or like Google YouTube, you know, soundboard isn’t working and, you know, there, you may not find what you’re looking for the first video, but you know, the, part of the practice, right, is giving yourself enough time to search through what you’re looking for, right? Not doing it like the Sunday, the Sunday morning or in the middle of service. And there are days where you have to, right, but obviously you can’t plan for for these things to happen. But you know, if there’s something that you’ve been dealing with for a couple of weeks, it’s as simple as Googling it, right, or, I guess, you know, if, if you’re part of this Facebook community of other small church leaders, like, you know, find someone who’s willing to be able to sit with you one-on-one for 5 or 10 minutes. Shoot, you can message me on Instagram or Facebook, I’ll, I’ll help as much as I can. Right.
Matt Hernando 26:40
Yeah. Honestly, I don’t mind! I, I mean I, I’m like the unofficial official tech guy of our church, right? My computer doesn’t turn on, what do I do? Let me come over and help you. And honestly, like, that’s, those things is where I say, like, this is where God blessed me is that I get to build a relationship with these people that asked me for help. It’s not just about fixing these things, it’s about spending time with them, and that’s where I find the benefit of being able to do that. So I, reach out! I’m all available.
Laurie Graham 27:08
One of the biggest reasons I wanted to have you on the podcast, Matt, was because you said you taught yourself and I think a lot of times we limit ourselves. Like, like, we just have what we have, and we’re never going to understand it, and I think we have so much choice and responsibility and, and it’s fun. And it makes us feel just amazing when we learn something on ourselves, and I think God made us much more creative and resourceful than we would ever know. And especially these days, like there’s knowledge at the tip of our fingertips, but I will say, and speak to this if you can, maybe this hasn’t happened to you, but for me, my frustration or my limits in tech come in when I get frustrated and I think it’s never going to work. Like I get, I get upset and I don’t let myself have the space or patience, and it happened getting on this podcast. It was so sweet because I couldn’t get into my own podcast. Like, I, it wasn’t letting me join the session and Matt had texted and he said, “Oh, it wouldn’t be a tech thing if there wasn’t a tech issue.” Like, it’s almost like you expect they happen and you just expect to troubleshoot them. Is that, is that how you feel about tech?
Matt Hernando 28:09
There’s two things to that, right? I think one is I, I try not to take it personal. One. I think we can, we can all say like, the benefit of making sure it works is that there’s, like, the potential of what I spoke to earlier, like reaching out to people, right? And so, being flustered about it or being frustrated about it will, you know, restrain you from being able to meet that because now you’re focusing on, like, the frustration part versus, like, trying to find the correction of it, right? But, I was gonna say earlier, you know, if there was one big piece of advice that I would, I would give in terms of like, how to help somebody or help somebody who doesn’t know, or even like, you can even add this to like recruiting is there was a time when I first started, and my son was about one or two years old. And I didn’t have a lot of help, but at the same time I was teaching him colors, right? So what I did was, I took a red sticker and I put it on one end of the XLR cable, and then I put a red sticker on a soundboard. And I say hey, go find the red sticker. Plug this into the red sticker, right, or go find the blue sticker, plug this into the blue sticker. And what I’m getting at with that, is that, going back to the preparation part of it is, as you learn these new things, write it down. Create this manual, so that when you onboard this next volunteer, like, they don’t go through the initial struggles of like, this is overwhelming. They can say like, hey, there’s a manual that someone spent time researching, putting together, I know that, with confidence, that this works if I plug this here, and then it creates this positive vibe to media ministry that allows them to say like, “Hey, I can do this.” And then they can, then they show up next week, right? And I think also with that, too, is that you create this manual so you spend less, less time thinking about things that you already know. So you can spend that same amount of time growing in the ministry, right? So now you, let’s say, it takes you an average an hour to set up, now you cut it down to 45 minutes, because you know where everything goes. So you can spend those 15 minutes in prayer for the service, right? You can spend those 15 minutes just checking in on each other. You can spend that 15 minutes adding to your ministry, right? Like, let’s say we want to do a live ministry aspect of it now, right? So like you, you continue to add and as you become efficient, and through the preparation, you know, that allows you to grow to where you want to be, in terms of like your vision and technicality of the media ministry.
Laurie Graham 30:54
Okay, there’s so many things I love about what you just said! How old was your son when you had him doing that?
Matt Hernando 30:59
Like two, maybe three years old?
Laurie Graham 31:01
Okay, so he’s a toddler?
Matt Hernando 31:02
Yeah.
Laurie Graham 31:03
So let’s just go here.
Matt Hernando 31:04
Okay.
Laurie Graham 31:05
There are many, many churches where one person controls the sound, and when they’re gone, there’s no one to help and they don’t let anyone touch it. And I kind of understand it, because things get fouled up when you’re talking about the gains and the levels and all those kinds of things, because some people like to set it and if it’s messed up, they don’t know what to do with it. I totally get that. However, I think what you’re talking about, really is developing people and giving them confidence. That yeah, you can do this, like, there are technicalities that make it great, but I really believe if more people were exposed to the board and understood what this was and understood that, you know, like you said, the cable actually goes to one thing like it goes to one mic, it goes to, just understanding basic pieces that any 5 year old or 10 year old or 15 year old or 85 year old would understand if somebody would value them and allow them in, I don’t know, kind of I don’t even know what I’m trying to say like, trust them, maybe it’s a trust issue? Can you speak to that at all? Is that hard to let other people in on the technical stuff?
Matt Hernando 32:09
It is, but and I may be in the, the unpopular decision or unpopular, whatever, when I say this, but is it your ministry or God’s ministry, right? And so, you’re, you’re a steward to take care of the stuff. You know, I fully believe that and you, you have this responsibility to make sure, I mean, media ministry stuff is not cheap, right? So you, you have this responsibility to take care of it, but you know, why, but at what points, you know, why do you constrain the ability or the opportunity of knowledge, right? Like, like, yes, like, you know, well, well if you’re in a digital board aspect of it, you can always recall your settings, right, but I get it for like, the analog stuff type stuff. Where, yeah, like, it’s, it’s kind of inconvenient, but, you know, if it really is that much of an inconvenience, take a picture of it, right? And then just refer back to the same settings, and if it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out, you know, but you, you learn and then, you know, it gives you an opportunity to learn how to correct, but I would never, I would never turn down people over, you know, my, my comfort, right? Like, it is comfortable to make sure that everything works, but I remember those days where I was serving in the media ministry by myself, and like, if I’m really, truly believing that this ministry is seeking and saving the lost and giving the people an opportunity of, of having a good service, like, I know that I can’t do it by myself, right? So it’s a trade off, and I don’t know, like I said, I might be in the unpopular part of the scheme of the, of that, but that’s, that’s where I stand and, you know, I, I’m open to any kind of help, and it’s not as overwhelming as people think it is. And I think it’s just more so making sure you prioritize the relationship part of it.
Laurie Graham 34:04
Yeah, well, and that also loops back to something you said earlier, when we were talking about the differences between large churches and small churches, is that small churches, the job really isn’t to recruit somebody and find the talented person. The job is to develop somebody which is patience, and it is seeing potential, and it is trying things and experimenting, and but that’s what Jesus did! Like, I think about that all the time. God didn’t give Him like an evangelist who had built a church to partner with Him. He gave Him a fisherman and a tax collector, and I just, I just think of Jesus sometimes like, I don’t, I don’t picture Him rolling His eyes saying, “Really God, that’s what you gave me?” Like, I just see Him seeing potential.
Matt Hernando 34:44
Everyone’s, everyone’s got talent, you know? I think everyone’s got an opportunity to contribute, and it’s just using what they’re good at and finding how it benefits your ministry.
Laurie Graham 34:56
I love it so much. All right. We’re almost out of time, but not quite yet! Are you up for a couple of rapid fire uestions just for fun?
Matt Hernando 35:03
Yeah, absolutely!
Laurie Graham 35:04
Okay, if you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be and why?
Matt Hernando 35:09
I would say the Philippines. That’s where my mom and dad are from. I also have a lot of family that I don’t know there, and so, I think it’d be cool to just kind of, you know, build that relationship with that side of the family, but also, I just, I see an opportunity for small churches out there, too! I mean, to look and think about what the resources they have, right? And so it’s another challenge.
Laurie Graham 35:30
Oh how fun! Have you been there? Have you visited there, or no?
Matt Hernando 35:32
II used to go more often when I was a kid, it was also a lot cheaper. I haven’t been there since, but I, I’m trying to go soon because I definitely want to see, I want to, I want my kids to see the Philippines.
Laurie Graham 35:44
Oh, how sweet. I love it! Okay. So, when you find yourself stressed or kind of out of focus, what is it that helps bring you back to Jesus?
Matt Hernando 35:52
Definitely my, my small group. Like, that, without, without question, I think even, you know, I’m going through some stuff personally, right, and I think at the end of the day, my small group knows who, who I am, and they know, like, they, they have the dreaming for me that God casts it on well, as well. So my small group, you know, they help me come back and they regroup and they let me be raw, which is which I appreciate a lot. But then they’re able to, you know, come back and say like, alright, so you were raw, but now let’s, let’s remember all the things that you are grateful for, and all the things that God has blessed you with and stuff.
Laurie Graham 36:31
I love it. Okay, so worship and tech. What is one of your current, favorite worship songs and why?
Matt Hernando 36:38
This might be cliche. Waymaker for quite a few reasons. One, it’s, my daughter. She’s like, four years old and it’s her favorite song. So, I love when she’s, when she hears it, but the the lyrics is just so powerful, like, you know, even like I say it every day, like even when I don’t feel it. I know He’s working right? And so, I have to remind myself that I don’t, I don’t see it right now, or I don’t feel it, but He’s definitely working for sure.
Laurie Graham 37:10
Now, I’ll be thinking about that all day. I’m actually picturing your daughter, like singing it.
Matt Hernando 37:14
Maybe I’ll text you the video of it. It’s, it’s awesome!
Laurie Graham 37:16
Oh, I love that! I would totally watch it. Awesome! Okay, how about this one? After you leave this planet, I wanted to phrase this after you die, but people get kind of weird about that. So let’s say, after you leave this planet, what is one thing you really hope somebody says about you when you’re gone? Like somebody who’s still walking around here, what do you hope somebody says about you?
Matt Hernando 37:37
I hope that they, they can see me or they can say that I was, that was definitely serving unconditionally, loving unconditionally. I definitely want to be someone who’s known to be like authentic, and personable. I think before my relationship with God, like, I was a people pleasing seeker, and so like, I love just relationships and friendships, but now I’m able to use what I know through my relationship with God for purpose. And so like, now I have purposeful friendships. So I just, I just want to be someone who’s recognized for that.
Laurie Graham 38:12
Awe, oh, wow! Okay, last up.
Matt Hernando 38:16
Okay.
Laurie Graham 38:16
We talk a lot about transformation in our ministry, that God’s not done with us, like, nobody’s broken. We’re just not complete yet, you know? So, if you picture yourself five years from now, what do you hope is different about you? Like, what do you see?
Matt Hernando 38:31
It’s funny, I, five years ago, I had been asked that same question. Today, it’s not anywhere near that. So, but, you know, five years from now, I definitely, I just want to, you know, be better. I think, I want to try to continue to be more authentic. I want to definitely try to be more serving. I want to, hopefully, be on another church plant, or, you know? I think, I think by then, you know, my kids are going to be old enough to be aware of ministry, so I, you know, I want to help them. I want to be able to equip them and show them, like, what God has blessed them with, so they can serve as well. So, I know I’m getting to the point where I’m gonna need to, like, kind of take a step back to focus on growing my kids, but I’m hoping that they can be contributors to the kingdom pretty soon.
Laurie Graham 39:28
I love it! There’s a lot of overlap in that, when you can do ministry together in a way that honors them, that doesn’t just drag them around, but honors them, it can be so so beautiful. It was such a pleasure talking to you today, Matt! I am so excited to hear your breakout session at the conference, too. You know, as we wrap up, if people want to connect with you, where can they find you?
Matt Hernando 39:49
Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. It’s all under Matt Hernando. So, it’s, like, you can literally just Instagram at Matt Hernando or M Hernando, and I’ll be on there, and maybe if you put it in the discription, I can send you the links as well.
Laurie Graham 40:04
Yeah, we will, we’ll totally put it in the link. So, that sounds really good. Well, our worship and tech conference is coming up on October 22, everybody! It’s, the registration is going to be opening really soon. The link is in the show notes to get on the invite list and as soon as registration opens, if you’re on the invite list, you’re the first ones to know. So if you’re new to our conferences, we host quarterly conferences for small churches on different ministry areas. So, October is worship and tech, in January is women’s ministry. April is kids and youth, and our conferences are pretty much the best thing ever, and this isn’t just from me, this was from people who attend. They talk about it being super fun and interactive and really impactful because it is not a typical stare at the screen type situations. Plus, it’s free! To watch live is completely free for a full day and Matt is going to be there speaking. I know people who think they’re just going to pop in and check it out, often, like they stay all day, even if they’re like across the ocean. Like, in the UK, we had somebody from Botswana, who literally, they’re like we’re gonna be up till 1:00 in the morning. Like we’re gonna be up till 1:00 in the morning because the time changes and stuff.
Laurie Graham 41:05
But at this worship and tech conference, we have over 30 speakers at this one! This is one of our biggest conferences, and they’re talking about everything from finding worship team members, to using hymns in modern worship. There’s just, the topics are just amazing, and our community is inter-denominational and international. So, grab the link in the show notes to get on the list. It was so great to have everyone with us today! Like, how beautiful just to be able to spend this time together? And if you haven’t yet, would you please just take a minute to leave a review of the podcast? If you are not sure how, my daughter has made it super easy. There’s a link in the show notes. That makes it really easy. She literally left instructions there. Your review just means the world to us! We are really on a mission to bring hope and creative solutions to small churches worldwide, and your review really helps people find us. So, find that link in the show notes. Leave a shout out of the podcast. Find Matt on Instagram. Have a beautiful week and be a light.
Matt Hernando 42:05
Thank you for having me.
Laurie Graham 42:07
Thanks for being here, Matt!
Intro 0:01
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to The Small Church Ministry Podcast.
Laurie Graham 0:15
Hey, welcome back to The Small Church Ministry Podcast. We are in the middle of a series all about worship and tech for small churches. If you are finding us for the first time, we are seriously excited about sharing creative solutions and strategies just for small churches! There is no reason to be hanging in your head in frustration if you’re a small church, because small church ministry is not less ministry than large churches, it is just a different kind of ministry. So, hang with us if you want to discover and uncover creative solutions to challenges you’re facing, whether you’re in a church of 20 or 200.
Laurie Graham 00:46
So as I mentioned, we’re in the middle of a series all about worship and tech in small churches, and I have an amazing guest with us today who totally gets it. He gets small churches and the struggles they face, and he also gets tech, which is good because I don’t. I get the worship part, but not the tech part. So I’m so happy to have Matt here with us. He is a multi-ministry leader for The Crossing Church Innerbelt in St. Louis, Missouri, and he has 100% volunteer, as most of us are in small churches. So, I’m so excited for him to share part of his journey with you, not only in the tech ministry, but also I don’t know if I told you, I was going to ask you this, Matt, but about how volunteering, like directly impacted your relationship with Jesus and the church, because I know that’s part of your journey. So we’re going to talk specifically, also, about how to train a tech team if there’s no one around to train anybody, because that is one of the biggest things that so many small churches have been saying to us as we’ve been talking about our upcoming conference, just having this equipment and not really knowing how to do it, or how to use it, and there’s no one around to teach them. So, anyway, Matt, I am so excited to talk to you today. I know you’re in the middle of a busy day, what is your biggest project for today? Like what’s going on with you today?
Matt Hernando 01:53
So we are, we are a church plant, and we’ve been breaking down, setting up every Sunday for the last eight years, and this year, God has blessed us with an opportunity to get our own building. And so today, my project is working in the building, putting down some tiling, flooring, whatever, whatever I got to do to get that building ready to go for our first service.
Laurie Graham 02:19
Oh, I love this so much, because you’re doing tiling as the tech team guy, right, and this is small church ministry, isn’t it?
Matt Hernando 02:26
Yeah. I mean, that’s not even, I mean, landscaping, whatever you need me to do. I’ll do it.
Laurie Graham 02:32
I love it so much. So, I didn’t realize you have a building now. Like, that’s super exciting that you’re getting to move into it, but you’ve been breaking down for eight years, right? Every single week?
Matt Hernando 02:41
Every single week. Yep.
Laurie Graham 02:42
Tell us about your church a little bit and the story there.
Matt Hernando 02:45
Yeah. So um, like you said earlier, we’re The Crossings Innerbelt in St. Louis, Missouri. We’re one of four church plants from The Crossings Church over in Wentzville, Missouri, and we planted about eight years ago and we started with about 30 of us, and then now our average attendee on Sundays between members, guests, and kids is about 150. And, yeah, I mean, we, we break down and set up, we rent out a school gym. We, the last three years, we’ve been fortunate enough to have the same rental, but prior to that, I mean, we were probably using a new venue, every month. So, it was, it was, it was hard, but it was a great opportunity to learn and really feel, feel the investment of what a church plant really means.
Laurie Graham 03:39
Well, and you don’t just get small churches, you also get the whole portable thing. I actually just had somebody reach out again on our site saying, “could you give us more resources for portable churches,” because even when it comes to like outreach programs, they’re like, we don’t have a building, we don’t have a property, the park will charge us $1,000 to meet there. And so there’s so many different dynamics, not just in tech, but just in not having a location. So, so you’ve seen it all. So you were 30 and now you’re a little over 100, and so, can you also just mention this, I think you said that your church vision is to always be planting so you don’t ever expect to grow into a big church, like, you, that’s not part of the vision, right?
Matt Hernando 04:17
No, and it hasn’t been and I don’t, you know, I think that so even, even in our church right now, we, we really take pride in, in our small groups. We try to keep it small for the, the authenticity part of it, the intimacy part, and just everything about just being small. And so, you know, the blessing in that is that we from The Crossings wide vision is that we don’t want to get too too big because, you know, once you get to a certain point you start losing some of that accountability that we believe is really effective into, effective in our relationship with, with God as a small group. So, I think, I don’t want to be breaking any news here, but I think we’re getting ready to plant another one. So, like I said, we’re four in now from Wentzville, and I think the plan is, so like, every, every church plan so far has come from Wentzville, but I think the vision is that, you know, the Innerbelt, like our church and our other plants can contribute to the next team, but obviously, we’re still kind of small, but that’s like the greater vision of it.
Laurie Graham 05:25
Yeah. And so as, as you’re talking, there’s people listening right now who say, “Oh, he doesn’t really get small churches, because he’s from a big church, and so there’s all that support and all that help.” Because there really is, small churches, there’s not just like one, one community of small churches. Like every small church really is uniquely different from every other small church, and there’s so many places in the church planting situation where you really are starting with 30, even if you do have, like a larger church. Have you seen a difference with that or do you still feel like you have a lot of the small church struggles?
Matt Hernando 06:00
I mean, even from the The Crossings, Wentzville, they actually are a church plant too, from another church and they they started with about 32. Overall, we try to keep things small. I mean, I don’t think that we intentionally say like, “Oh, we’re too big, we gotta go,” but like, I think it’s a good thing is like, we have the opportunity to do so. So let’s, let’s do it, you know? And I think there’s, there’s where you, where you caution is that you don’t want to do it too much because then you have the consequence, or the consequences of dying from not having that accountability, right? So it’s a balance between, like, making sure people are equipped to do so spiritually and, and mature enough to do so, but also like, the willingness to do it, right? And so yeah, I feel it sometimes, but I think I trust our leadership enough to know that we’re, we won’t get to the point intentionally of being big. Obviously, you know, if the fruit grows, the fruit grows, right? Like, but it comes from our vision of, ya know, reaching out and seeking and saving the lost
Laurie Graham 07:10
You know, there’s, there’s something about we really believe that God works in every size church, like every sized church, but the goal isn’t to look like the big church, the goal is to imitate Jesus, and to do ministry that’s relational, and that’s grounded. And yet, when you’re in a church of 30 or 40, there’s a lot of struggles that happen, and I think just, you know, losing our focus can really just throw us off. Can you tell us a little bit about your story with your church? I know, I already mentioned you’re the multimedia, you know, tech leader. What does that look like for you, and were you an expert when they found you?
Matt Hernando 07:45
So what does that look like for me? So overall, as a media ministry leader, obviously, I’m in charge of meeting also the media needs for like our events throughout the week. I also am in charge of making sure that we have the tech for, like our retreats. We do like an annual ladies retreat, men’s retreat, marriage retreat, and, consequently enough, I somehow inherited the registration aspect of it. So, I do that, and then, you know, just meeting, meeting whatever needs in between. But, I will say, that even to this point, I’m, I’m far from an expert, to be honest, I, I, I can, I will publicly admit that there are definitely way more talented individuals around me that are near, that we could be, you know, giving them the opportunity too and, you know, I’ll be the first one to admit as well, like, as long as their willingness to serve in their, you know, relationship with, with God is there, like, I’ll hand , them over the keys. Like, I acknowledged that they’re, they’re way more talented,ut I think really, is that when I first started, I think it was just because I was just willing, you know, and I was eager to serve. And that’s, that’s where, you know, it separates the people from, like, being part of the ministry or not.
Laurie Graham 09:15
Yeah, yeah. So, talk about this willingness to serve when you don’t really know what you’re doing. Because, as I mentioned, this is one of the biggest struggles with tech and small churches. I was talking to somebody the other day from a rural church, and I was trying to suggest. So I’m in, I’m in a big city. I’m in Tucson, a city of a million and so I remember reaching out to the people who worked at Guitar Center and saying, “Hey, can you come and help me” and, and we had somebody come in and do some training, and this person said, we don’t have that, we’re literally in the middle of nowhere. I don’t know how to help my tech person. They don’t know what they’re doing, and that is one of the really most common things so I know you did a lot of, you did a lot of like on the job training yourself with no one helping you. So, how did you learn what you know, and what would you suggest to people who don’t have that mentor who’s around to show them?
Matt Hernando 10:01
So, first off, I’ll admit, I kind of had the same attitude. I mean, I’m from, I grew up in New York City. So I mean word. I mean, New York City’s New York City, right? And so when I moved to St. Louis, or even Wentzville, that’s, you know, 45 minutes away from the city, like, where would I, like, the nearest Guitar Center is 45 minutes away, like, where would I get these resources from, right?So I have the same perspective of, like, you know, what do I do? And I think, honestly, it’s, well, there’s, there’s two, there’s two dimensions to it, is one is, are we, are you, I was overthinking a lot of things. I think there’s this false notion that media is overwhelming, and there are aspects of it that can be overwhelming, but, you know, if you can, if you focus on the basics, it’s really like a simple setup in terms of just meeting very foundational or basic media needs, right. But then in terms of growing that, you know, there’s, nowadays there’s resources on on YouTube, there’s, you know, Facebook groups of other church tech leaders that you can join, and, you know, you may not agree with everything that they may say in terms of how to run a media ministry in general, but I think you can take the, the technical aspect of it, and then make it your own. Right? But also, like, I think people underestimate the value of, of practice, right? Like, I grew up playing baseball, and, you know, my coach would always say, like, you know, you don’t, when you’re at the game, like, you’re, you’re using what you’ve practiced to use in the game, in terms of like perfecting, right? You’re not using the game to practice. And so like, if Sunday’s like my equivalent to a game, like, what am I doing, you know, Friday, Saturday, to prepare for that, right? Like, not, not just showing up on Sunday, and, and just doing it there, you know, and, and so, practice, you know. I spent a lot of Saturday nights, date nights with my wife, setting up and saying, like, “Hey, like, I’ve been having a hard time with this XLR cable. I don’t, I don’t really know why it’s doing this. Do you mind if we, you know, if we go set up the night before, and just, you know, try to, try to work it out, or do you mind if I set it up in the living room? Right, like, you know, stuff like that.
Laurie Graham 12:25
I was gonna ask you how you practice, because I know you had said in one of our, you know, one of our conversations that you would practice during the week, I’m like, how do you practice? Because I’m thinking you need the singers there, and by the way, you lost me at XLR cable, because, for me, it’s like the knobs and the slidy things. Like, I understand that things are connected with steaks and cables, but that’s about all I got. So, so you really did a lot of self teaching, though and also self practice, and I think that’s amazing! I just, kudos to you for even, I guess why? Why did you, how did you get the feeling that your job was that significant? Because I know a lot of people really just do think in the tech ministry, they just need to turn it on and make sure people can hear it. And for me, I’ve noticed a lot of different things, that it’s not really, it’s not really that it’s, it’s almost like an instrument, you know? Like, there’s so much beauty that can happen with that, but how did that value go up in your mind that you even wanted to practice?
Matt Hernando 13:20
Yeah, I mean, going back to the, to the beauty part that you had just mentioned, right? I think media ministry, for me, is not just media ministry, you know? I think, I look back at the fruit of services, right? I look, I can specifically point out to people in my congregation now that their first service was like, the first impressions to the, their, now, relationship with God, right? And so you look at that, and you’re like, you’re a big aspect of that, like you contribute to the first impressions of their first and their first day of pursuing a relationship with God. And, you know, I think of more about the souls of those that come through our doors, right? Like, like, why do I practice or why do I want to do media ministry, right? And I think, and I will admit that I didn’t have that perspective at first, and I think that’s where I really got burned a lot and I kind of felt a lot of the burnout, but the reason why I’m able to pur, you know, pursue and push through is because, like, I can think of my right-hand man in the ministry, media ministry now. Like I remember his first service and thinking like, you know, he loved it enough that he was, he like, he loved church enough, and he had a, like a interest in media in general. And so like, because I was able to give him that good first experience, he was able to pursue a relationship with God and then use the talents that God has blessed him with to help me and my media ministry. And so, when you’re able to see it full circle, I mean, there’s like, what else? Like there’s nothing better, right? Like, there’s, like, there’s nothing more that you could want than to see someone have the eternity with you, right? So.
Laurie Graham 15:14
I have goosebumps right now. I mean, why don’t we tell people this when we’re giving them opportunities to serve? Like, you know, I think so many times we’re recruiting people to do a task instead of being part of the vision. So I love that you, like, have a picture of the vision and you said you didn’t have it when you started? How did that happen for you?
Matt Hernando 15:32
The big mistakes, the lot of mistakes. I think, too, I think, ultimately, the common theme in my life is, is the prideful tendencies that I have. I think when I first started, obviously, there was an opportunity to serve, but I really liked the attention that I got from serving, like, oh, he saved the media ministry, and, you know, he was willing, and I just, I think I genuinely seeked the attention more than I seeked the service opportunity. And eventually, I got burned by that because, you know, then the worship team comes in, and it’s like, “Hey, I’m not sounding good. Like, can you fix this?” or like, “Hey, media is not doing so well, like, you know, can you do that?”or, I promised I was gonna, like, tease my, my, my senior minister, but like, he would give us a sermon, like two minutes before service, right? And so like, those, those things, were not people pleasing, right? They didn’t meet the needs of me feeling full because of my desire to people please. And so then I got, I guess, I got called out or whatever, and had a heart to heart with one of my best friends. And was like, you know, you know, so why are you serving? Like, are you serving it because you want the attention for people? Are you serving it because you, like, want this relationship with God, and you know how it benefits the kingdom? And I think that really spoke to me, and I think from then, that point on, I still had my, I won’t lie, I still had my, my tendencies, but I think I can always go back to that conversation and say, like, where’s my heart at right now? You know, is it because I’m trying to seek the attention or is it because like, I can see the fruit of this ministry?
Laurie Graham 17:20
Oh, I love it, and accidentally, this was totally not on purpose, but I think we just gave a sneak peek of your breakout session at the conference, didn’t we?
Matt Hernando 17:28
Yeah. Yeah. That’s good. Good marketing, I guess.
Laurie Graham 17:32
Not, totally not on purpose, but thanks for sharing that and thanks for being vulnerable about that. You know, I think as humans, we need to take all of us to Jesus, not just our hands and our feet, right, you know, not just what we’re doing, but who we are. And I love that you’re willing even to share your growth, but if you are listening to this, and it’s live, like during what is this year, 2022? I keep thinking it’s 2023. It’s really crazy. But if it’s 2022, and it’s not October, yet, we do have a worship and tech conference coming up, and Matt is one of our speakers. So we’re so excited to, just to have you there and we’re really excited about the conference because, to my knowledge, there has never been a worship and tech ministry conference for small churches, like for small churches. Like we tried to find one and we can’t really, we haven’t found one. So it’s one of those things where people in small churches go to conferences, and they leave going “None of that applied to me. I can’t, I can’t I just wasted a bunch of money.” And our conferences are free. So we’re so excited, but speaking of the conference and what we’re talking about today, what do you think are some specific challenges in small churches as opposed to the big ones? So for me in tech, I think money and talent, but I don’t really know, tech. So am I missing anything there? I guess people, too.
Matt Hernando 18:42
Yeah, I mean, I can, I could probably go on the rest of the podcast talking about the challenges.
Laurie Graham 18:50
What are some of the top ones that you’ve seen, like in a small church, that would be unique to a small church setting?
Matt Hernando 18:54
I think venue is, is one of the biggest ones. I think, you know, like I said earlier, the first couple years that we struggled with, was having to set up at a new venue every month, you know, and then being accommodating to the venue, right? Like, sometimes we when we rent out this gym that we’re at right now, sometimes they have an event the night before, and they’re like, they leave chairs out or the tarps out or the bleachers out, right. And so I’d say venue is one. I think the vision is another one, you know, I think when we’re recruiting, I think I struggled with looking for talent versus willingness at first. I think that, that really was a crutch to my growth is that, oh, you’re, you’re not talented enough to join my ministry, and so when I was doing it by myself, I realized like, am I really looking for talent or am I just looking for opportunity or availability or willingness, right? And so, I would say like, those are the two, two biggest struggles if you, if you would ask me. I know, I know, budget is another one, but, you know, I, I really try not to focus on budget, you know, I try to, I try to really make the best of what I have and be grateful for what I have. And, you know, if it’s, if it’s not a lot, you know, it’s more than than nothing, right? And so I think being the best that you can be with what you have is something that I can always go up to, when my time comes, like I can go up to the Gates of Heaven and say, like, “Lord, I, faith, I’m a good, faithful servant. I did with what I, I did what I could with what I had, and I can, I can live with that versus like, I’m not gonna go there and say, like, Oh, I didn’t have the best microphone, or I didn’t have the best speakers, right? And so I think those are the top three, in my opinion.
Laurie Graham 20:51
Yeah, and you know, you talked earlier about, you know, people’s heart changes, and how tech ministry is really part of bringing people to Jesus. And, you know, when I think about that, I’m really reminded that people don’t come to Jesus because the microphone is great. They come to Jesus because they see the unity and the joy in the body of Christ. Like, I really believe, I know Jesus did a bunch of miracles, but I don’t think that’s why people stuck with Him. I think the people that stuck with Him saw something different in Him, like the way He related to people, the way He related to the Father, you know? Because the miracles are like, you know, we do an egg hun and we get, you know, 300 people at a, at an event, you know, your church of 50 gets 300 people, but they don’t come back on Sunday. Well, that’s not, people don’t need more entertainment or more glitz, especially today, and when your tech team or your worship team or your, you know, your community of believers, when they are so other like, wow, I’ve never experienced a body of people like this. I really think that’s what draws people to Jesus. I don’t think it has anything to do with the equipment. I think we can worship with no equipment.
Matt Hernando 21:53
Yeah. I mean, if you have to, you have to, right? I think the going back to what you said earlier, earlier on, you know, one of the things that I really feel like is the success of like, my tech ministry, and this is not like, in any way bragging about anything is that the, the culture of being, being able to be vulnerable with like, your volunteers, like, right? Like, I’m gonna be honest, like, I’ve made a lot of mistakes, and they’re, my right-hand, man, he’s like my voice of reason, and, like, I, we always think the opposites and that’s, that’s why I pull him closer because, like, he’s able to see the things that I’m not able to see. But, you know, I’ve had times where I’ve had to go up to him and say, like, hey, I made a mistake in the way we set up, like, you know, I’m sorry about that, you know, next time we can do this better. And I think if you ask him, he would say like, those moments are the reasons why he’s stuck around, was that you’re, you, we’re not leading this ministry, media or church, through perfectionism. It’s, it’s through the vulnerability of being able to be authentic and honest with other things and just helping each other grow. And there’s no shamein any of that, you know? It’s, it, you’re not called to be perfect, you’re just called to be authentic. And, and so that’s, that’s, that’s just contributes to the growth of both media ministry and your church.
Laurie Graham 23:20
I love it! I am loving talking to you. I can’t believe we are going to have to stop our conversation at some point here, but we’re gonna keep going. So let’s get back to the main focus of the podcast, because there’s some people saying, “Wait, I want to know what to do if I don’t know what to do.” So, what advice would you give somebody who’s in a church, they don’t have an expert, they are willing, like, let’s say somebody like you really was willing to put some time and energy into this, where should they start? You mentioned a couple things earlier, but I just want to unpack them a little bit. One thing you mentioned was like Facebook communities. Do you have any, like, ones that you would recommend or how do they find those Facebook communitie who might help them? What would they Google or search?
Matt Hernando 23:59
Yeah, um, I don’t necessarily have one that I would actually, like, fully recommend in terms of like, you know, I think just looking at the overall picture, but there are other, so like, there is sound tech groups that are not even, like media ministry related, it’s just more so like, how to be a sound engineer for a concert or how to be like a sound engineer for, you know, setting up an event or you know, just looking at some of those. Like, how to, like soundboard group, Facebook groups, right? Like you they post on there, like, “Hey, I have a troubleshooting issue with a soundboard.” So it’s just a collective ness of gathering bits and pieces of all these different groups that are maybe, I guess, more worldly and then just using that to benefit the kingdom. But I would say,
Laurie Graham 24:50
I have found, I found people on the internet, like I know a lot of people have all these negative images of Facebook and the internet, but I have found so much generosity among Christian believers on the interne. Like people have helped so many people! We have a Facebook community called Creative Solutions for Small Churches, and I’m telling you, people post things in there and everyone’s like, I’m gonna help, I’m gonna help, and they’re like, how are all these people helping me? It’s almost like small churches all around the globe are like saying, “Yeah, we’re gonna help you because we get it, we know what it’s like.” So I love that you’ve used those, and I love that you’re recommending just sound tech groups that are outside the church arena, because sometimes there’s an awful lot of talent there that we can be learning from. Okay, so we’ve got Facebook groups, you mentioned YouTube. How do they find what they need on YouTube?
Matt Hernando 25:35
As, as honest as I can be, I literally would Google YouTube why, like how to plug in an XLR cable or, you know?
Laurie Graham 25:44
Or what is an XLR?
Laurie Graham 25:45
So we just heard the offer, we’re gonna do that one.
Matt Hernando 25:45
Or what is an XLR cable right? Or like Google YouTube, you know, soundboard isn’t working and, you know, there, you may not find what you’re looking for the first video, but you know, the, part of the practice, right, is giving yourself enough time to search through what you’re looking for, right? Not doing it like the Sunday, the Sunday morning or in the middle of service. And there are days where you have to, right, but obviously you can’t plan for for these things to happen. But you know, if there’s something that you’ve been dealing with for a couple of weeks, it’s as simple as Googling it, right, or, I guess, you know, if, if you’re part of this Facebook community of other small church leaders, like, you know, find someone who’s willing to be able to sit with you one-on-one for 5 or 10 minutes. Shoot, you can message me on Instagram or Facebook, I’ll, I’ll help as much as I can. Right.
Matt Hernando 26:40
Yeah. Honestly, I don’t mind! I, I mean I, I’m like the unofficial official tech guy of our church, right? My computer doesn’t turn on, what do I do? Let me come over and help you. And honestly, like, that’s, those things is where I say, like, this is where God blessed me is that I get to build a relationship with these people that asked me for help. It’s not just about fixing these things, it’s about spending time with them, and that’s where I find the benefit of being able to do that. So I, reach out! I’m all available.
Laurie Graham 27:08
One of the biggest reasons I wanted to have you on the podcast, Matt, was because you said you taught yourself and I think a lot of times we limit ourselves. Like, like, we just have what we have, and we’re never going to understand it, and I think we have so much choice and responsibility and, and it’s fun. And it makes us feel just amazing when we learn something on ourselves, and I think God made us much more creative and resourceful than we would ever know. And especially these days, like there’s knowledge at the tip of our fingertips, but I will say, and speak to this if you can, maybe this hasn’t happened to you, but for me, my frustration or my limits in tech come in when I get frustrated and I think it’s never going to work. Like I get, I get upset and I don’t let myself have the space or patience, and it happened getting on this podcast. It was so sweet because I couldn’t get into my own podcast. Like, I, it wasn’t letting me join the session and Matt had texted and he said, “Oh, it wouldn’t be a tech thing if there wasn’t a tech issue.” Like, it’s almost like you expect they happen and you just expect to troubleshoot them. Is that, is that how you feel about tech?
Matt Hernando 28:09
There’s two things to that, right? I think one is I, I try not to take it personal. One. I think we can, we can all say like, the benefit of making sure it works is that there’s, like, the potential of what I spoke to earlier, like reaching out to people, right? And so, being flustered about it or being frustrated about it will, you know, restrain you from being able to meet that because now you’re focusing on, like, the frustration part versus, like, trying to find the correction of it, right? But, I was gonna say earlier, you know, if there was one big piece of advice that I would, I would give in terms of like, how to help somebody or help somebody who doesn’t know, or even like, you can even add this to like recruiting is there was a time when I first started, and my son was about one or two years old. And I didn’t have a lot of help, but at the same time I was teaching him colors, right? So what I did was, I took a red sticker and I put it on one end of the XLR cable, and then I put a red sticker on a soundboard. And I say hey, go find the red sticker. Plug this into the red sticker, right, or go find the blue sticker, plug this into the blue sticker. And what I’m getting at with that, is that, going back to the preparation part of it is, as you learn these new things, write it down. Create this manual, so that when you onboard this next volunteer, like, they don’t go through the initial struggles of like, this is overwhelming. They can say like, hey, there’s a manual that someone spent time researching, putting together, I know that, with confidence, that this works if I plug this here, and then it creates this positive vibe to media ministry that allows them to say like, “Hey, I can do this.” And then they can, then they show up next week, right? And I think also with that, too, is that you create this manual so you spend less, less time thinking about things that you already know. So you can spend that same amount of time growing in the ministry, right? So now you, let’s say, it takes you an average an hour to set up, now you cut it down to 45 minutes, because you know where everything goes. So you can spend those 15 minutes in prayer for the service, right? You can spend those 15 minutes just checking in on each other. You can spend that 15 minutes adding to your ministry, right? Like, let’s say we want to do a live ministry aspect of it now, right? So like you, you continue to add and as you become efficient, and through the preparation, you know, that allows you to grow to where you want to be, in terms of like your vision and technicality of the media ministry.
Laurie Graham 30:54
Okay, there’s so many things I love about what you just said! How old was your son when you had him doing that?
Matt Hernando 30:59
Like two, maybe three years old?
Laurie Graham 31:01
Okay, so he’s a toddler?
Matt Hernando 31:02
Yeah.
Laurie Graham 31:03
So let’s just go here.
Matt Hernando 31:04
Okay.
Laurie Graham 31:05
There are many, many churches where one person controls the sound, and when they’re gone, there’s no one to help and they don’t let anyone touch it. And I kind of understand it, because things get fouled up when you’re talking about the gains and the levels and all those kinds of things, because some people like to set it and if it’s messed up, they don’t know what to do with it. I totally get that. However, I think what you’re talking about, really is developing people and giving them confidence. That yeah, you can do this, like, there are technicalities that make it great, but I really believe if more people were exposed to the board and understood what this was and understood that, you know, like you said, the cable actually goes to one thing like it goes to one mic, it goes to, just understanding basic pieces that any 5 year old or 10 year old or 15 year old or 85 year old would understand if somebody would value them and allow them in, I don’t know, kind of I don’t even know what I’m trying to say like, trust them, maybe it’s a trust issue? Can you speak to that at all? Is that hard to let other people in on the technical stuff?
Matt Hernando 32:09
It is, but and I may be in the, the unpopular decision or unpopular, whatever, when I say this, but is it your ministry or God’s ministry, right? And so, you’re, you’re a steward to take care of the stuff. You know, I fully believe that and you, you have this responsibility to make sure, I mean, media ministry stuff is not cheap, right? So you, you have this responsibility to take care of it, but you know, why, but at what points, you know, why do you constrain the ability or the opportunity of knowledge, right? Like, like, yes, like, you know, well, well if you’re in a digital board aspect of it, you can always recall your settings, right, but I get it for like, the analog stuff type stuff. Where, yeah, like, it’s, it’s kind of inconvenient, but, you know, if it really is that much of an inconvenience, take a picture of it, right? And then just refer back to the same settings, and if it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out, you know, but you, you learn and then, you know, it gives you an opportunity to learn how to correct, but I would never, I would never turn down people over, you know, my, my comfort, right? Like, it is comfortable to make sure that everything works, but I remember those days where I was serving in the media ministry by myself, and like, if I’m really, truly believing that this ministry is seeking and saving the lost and giving the people an opportunity of, of having a good service, like, I know that I can’t do it by myself, right? So it’s a trade off, and I don’t know, like I said, I might be in the unpopular part of the scheme of the, of that, but that’s, that’s where I stand and, you know, I, I’m open to any kind of help, and it’s not as overwhelming as people think it is. And I think it’s just more so making sure you prioritize the relationship part of it.
Laurie Graham 34:04
Yeah, well, and that also loops back to something you said earlier, when we were talking about the differences between large churches and small churches, is that small churches, the job really isn’t to recruit somebody and find the talented person. The job is to develop somebody which is patience, and it is seeing potential, and it is trying things and experimenting, and but that’s what Jesus did! Like, I think about that all the time. God didn’t give Him like an evangelist who had built a church to partner with Him. He gave Him a fisherman and a tax collector, and I just, I just think of Jesus sometimes like, I don’t, I don’t picture Him rolling His eyes saying, “Really God, that’s what you gave me?” Like, I just see Him seeing potential.
Matt Hernando 34:44
Everyone’s, everyone’s got talent, you know? I think everyone’s got an opportunity to contribute, and it’s just using what they’re good at and finding how it benefits your ministry.
Laurie Graham 34:56
I love it so much. All right. We’re almost out of time, but not quite yet! Are you up for a couple of rapid fire uestions just for fun?
Matt Hernando 35:03
Yeah, absolutely!
Laurie Graham 35:04
Okay, if you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be and why?
Matt Hernando 35:09
I would say the Philippines. That’s where my mom and dad are from. I also have a lot of family that I don’t know there, and so, I think it’d be cool to just kind of, you know, build that relationship with that side of the family, but also, I just, I see an opportunity for small churches out there, too! I mean, to look and think about what the resources they have, right? And so it’s another challenge.
Laurie Graham 35:30
Oh how fun! Have you been there? Have you visited there, or no?
Matt Hernando 35:32
II used to go more often when I was a kid, it was also a lot cheaper. I haven’t been there since, but I, I’m trying to go soon because I definitely want to see, I want to, I want my kids to see the Philippines.
Laurie Graham 35:44
Oh, how sweet. I love it! Okay. So, when you find yourself stressed or kind of out of focus, what is it that helps bring you back to Jesus?
Matt Hernando 35:52
Definitely my, my small group. Like, that, without, without question, I think even, you know, I’m going through some stuff personally, right, and I think at the end of the day, my small group knows who, who I am, and they know, like, they, they have the dreaming for me that God casts it on well, as well. So my small group, you know, they help me come back and they regroup and they let me be raw, which is which I appreciate a lot. But then they’re able to, you know, come back and say like, alright, so you were raw, but now let’s, let’s remember all the things that you are grateful for, and all the things that God has blessed you with and stuff.
Laurie Graham 36:31
I love it. Okay, so worship and tech. What is one of your current, favorite worship songs and why?
Matt Hernando 36:38
This might be cliche. Waymaker for quite a few reasons. One, it’s, my daughter. She’s like, four years old and it’s her favorite song. So, I love when she’s, when she hears it, but the the lyrics is just so powerful, like, you know, even like I say it every day, like even when I don’t feel it. I know He’s working right? And so, I have to remind myself that I don’t, I don’t see it right now, or I don’t feel it, but He’s definitely working for sure.
Laurie Graham 37:10
Now, I’ll be thinking about that all day. I’m actually picturing your daughter, like singing it.
Matt Hernando 37:14
Maybe I’ll text you the video of it. It’s, it’s awesome!
Laurie Graham 37:16
Oh, I love that! I would totally watch it. Awesome! Okay, how about this one? After you leave this planet, I wanted to phrase this after you die, but people get kind of weird about that. So let’s say, after you leave this planet, what is one thing you really hope somebody says about you when you’re gone? Like somebody who’s still walking around here, what do you hope somebody says about you?
Matt Hernando 37:37
I hope that they, they can see me or they can say that I was, that was definitely serving unconditionally, loving unconditionally. I definitely want to be someone who’s known to be like authentic, and personable. I think before my relationship with God, like, I was a people pleasing seeker, and so like, I love just relationships and friendships, but now I’m able to use what I know through my relationship with God for purpose. And so like, now I have purposeful friendships. So I just, I just want to be someone who’s recognized for that.
Laurie Graham 38:12
Awe, oh, wow! Okay, last up.
Matt Hernando 38:16
Okay.
Laurie Graham 38:16
We talk a lot about transformation in our ministry, that God’s not done with us, like, nobody’s broken. We’re just not complete yet, you know? So, if you picture yourself five years from now, what do you hope is different about you? Like, what do you see?
Matt Hernando 38:31
It’s funny, I, five years ago, I had been asked that same question. Today, it’s not anywhere near that. So, but, you know, five years from now, I definitely, I just want to, you know, be better. I think, I want to try to continue to be more authentic. I want to definitely try to be more serving. I want to, hopefully, be on another church plant, or, you know? I think, I think by then, you know, my kids are going to be old enough to be aware of ministry, so I, you know, I want to help them. I want to be able to equip them and show them, like, what God has blessed them with, so they can serve as well. So, I know I’m getting to the point where I’m gonna need to, like, kind of take a step back to focus on growing my kids, but I’m hoping that they can be contributors to the kingdom pretty soon.
Laurie Graham 39:28
I love it! There’s a lot of overlap in that, when you can do ministry together in a way that honors them, that doesn’t just drag them around, but honors them, it can be so so beautiful. It was such a pleasure talking to you today, Matt! I am so excited to hear your breakout session at the conference, too. You know, as we wrap up, if people want to connect with you, where can they find you?
Matt Hernando 39:49
Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. It’s all under Matt Hernando. So, it’s, like, you can literally just Instagram at Matt Hernando or M Hernando, and I’ll be on there, and maybe if you put it in the discription, I can send you the links as well.
Laurie Graham 40:04
Yeah, we will, we’ll totally put it in the link. So, that sounds really good. Well, our worship and tech conference is coming up on October 22, everybody! It’s, the registration is going to be opening really soon. The link is in the show notes to get on the invite list and as soon as registration opens, if you’re on the invite list, you’re the first ones to know. So if you’re new to our conferences, we host quarterly conferences for small churches on different ministry areas. So, October is worship and tech, in January is women’s ministry. April is kids and youth, and our conferences are pretty much the best thing ever, and this isn’t just from me, this was from people who attend. They talk about it being super fun and interactive and really impactful because it is not a typical stare at the screen type situations. Plus, it’s free! To watch live is completely free for a full day and Matt is going to be there speaking. I know people who think they’re just going to pop in and check it out, often, like they stay all day, even if they’re like across the ocean. Like, in the UK, we had somebody from Botswana, who literally, they’re like we’re gonna be up till 1:00 in the morning. Like we’re gonna be up till 1:00 in the morning because the time changes and stuff.
Laurie Graham 41:05
But at this worship and tech conference, we have over 30 speakers at this one! This is one of our biggest conferences, and they’re talking about everything from finding worship team members, to using hymns in modern worship. There’s just, the topics are just amazing, and our community is inter-denominational and international. So, grab the link in the show notes to get on the list. It was so great to have everyone with us today! Like, how beautiful just to be able to spend this time together? And if you haven’t yet, would you please just take a minute to leave a review of the podcast? If you are not sure how, my daughter has made it super easy. There’s a link in the show notes. That makes it really easy. She literally left instructions there. Your review just means the world to us! We are really on a mission to bring hope and creative solutions to small churches worldwide, and your review really helps people find us. So, find that link in the show notes. Leave a shout out of the podcast. Find Matt on Instagram. Have a beautiful week and be a light.
Matt Hernando 42:05
Thank you for having me.
Laurie Graham 42:07
Thanks for being here, Matt!