044: Why Volunteers Really Say “NO” (& What to Do About It)

044: Why Volunteers Really Say “NO” (& What to Do About It)

Laurie Graham 0:01
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to the Small Church Ministry Podcast.

Laurie Graham 0:15
Hey, welcome to Episode 44, Why Volunteers Really Say No and What to Do About It. When it comes to small churches, we really can do nothing without volunteers, and I believe God designed the church this way, His community, His family. We were never meant to hire out all the jobs, to find professionals and pay them. Now, when you’re paid, that’s always part of the motivation. That’s just normal, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with paying your staff, please hear that. If you can pay your pastor, please do and pay him or her well, and if you can pay your children’s director, great, but the church as a whole? Well, if we hire out all the jobs, think about it, that kind of wrecks God’s plan for us to use our gifts to work together, to be interdependent. And in doing this, I don’t think our motivation is supposed to be what we get out of it anyway, whether it’s pay or other things. 

Can you imagine, like, what if all of us really were motivated by the greater good? What if our calling really was to be a servant, above all. Oh wait, that is our calling! Of course, it’s our calling, and that’s exactly why you’re listening because you get it, at least to some degree, and I say that for me as well. I don’t think I get the whole of what God has for me or for you or for us. I believe that’s a part of seeing in the mirror dimly while we’re on this planet, and knowing that one day, we get the promise to see Jesus face-to-face, and I don’t believe, until then, we can ever really fully know all of it or have all of it down, where I can precisely tell you what you should do, or you could tell me what I should do, but I do think we can get a really clear understanding of some basic principles and the amazing way that God has created us, our motivations as humans and our hearts to follow His example, to keep working more toward where He wants us to be and how He wants us to live, and how He wants His church to function, His family. So here it goes. 

The number one struggle in small churches continues, and I believe probably always will be, working with people or volunteers. It’s really the same thing. Whether we’re talking about not having enough volunteers, not having any volunteers, not having the right volunteers, or committed enough people, or maybe our volunteers are burnt out, or tired or too young, or too old, or too immature, or, again, not committed enough. Usually, though, the biggest struggle that I hear in small churches is not having enough volunteers. They say no, even if you ask. Now, if volunteers aren’t one of your biggest struggles, you might still want to listen in because maybe we could all just do a little better or maybe God has something new for each of us to pick up.

Laurie Graham 3:17
Even here. Even today. There are so many topics we could talk about with volunteers, and we will continue to cover topics in the future about volunteers because again, this is one of the major things that we struggle with in small churches, and things we could do better at. Now, if you’re totally new to this podcast, you might want to go back and check out Episodes 10 through 14, I did a short series on volunteers then, we cover the four I’s , which we talk about a lot in the Small Church Ministry organization, but today, we’re just going to talk about one particular thing. We’re going to talk about all the noes that we do get and what to do with those noes. 

So if you’re tired of hearing ‘no’, or if it hurts your feelings or makes you frustrated, or maybe even a little angry, please know you are not alone. This is super common. It can be super challenging to hear noes, but the good thing is, is if you didn’t care about hearing noes, then you wouldn’t really care about what you’re doing. It wouldn’t even bother you. Like, think about how much you care about what you’re doing, because if I was asked to move a rock pile from here to there, and I’m supposed to get volunteers and I’m looking at this rock pile like, this is stupid, like I don’t want to move it anyway, and I don’t see the point. Like, if we were trying to help, get people to help us move a rock pile and they said no or maybe even rolled their eyes now and then, I don’t think it would bother me much at all because I don’t care about the rock pile. I don’t see the point.

So here’s the thing, the only reason it is tough when we hear no in the church is because we care and I know you care, or you wouldn’t be listening to this podcast. You either care about the mission or the vision, or the specific ministry or people group that you’re working toward, or maybe you care deeply about your own health and the fact that you are overstretched, and you need help. You care, and that is an amazing place to start. In fact, it’s one of the reasons I love the community we have here at Small Church Ministry, because the people who find us like you, the people who are looking for solutions like you, well, you care. We all care deeply about our churches, about our faith, about people because if we didn’t, we wouldn’t be here, and that alone is beautiful. 

Laurie Graham 5:44
So here we are, people who care, people who here ‘no’ maybe a lot, or at least more than we like. So let’s talk about these noes. First, we’re going to talk about why volunteers really say no, and then we’ll get into what to do about it. So volunteers don’t say no because they’re too busy. Now, I’m not saying that they’re not busy. I’m just saying that’s not why they say no. Because let’s face it, we’re all busy or at least we all fill our time with something. We fill our time with whatever we prioritize. We might be busy hanging with our kids, or busy watching Netflix,or busy taking a day off, or busy at work, or busy on our house, or busy helping friends. Volunteers say no because what you’re asking them to do is not a priority, not for them or not for now. But I just want to erase the thought of busyness because it’s really not the core.

The question that’s going to help us a little more isn’t what people are busy with. The question that I love to ask, is thinking about why it’s not a priority. And I want to say, if you want to get better at building teams and working with people and accomplishing meaningful things, we all really should care about the answer to this question. Why is this not a priority for them? And instead of labeling them as uncommitted,  or irresponsible, or short sighted, or not visionary, or unhelpful, or deadweight, or one of my least favorite labels, that they are consumer Christians. Let’s just stop labeling everyone because I want to tell you, when we put those labels on other people, even the ones saying, hey, they’re a consumer Christian, it really doesn’t serve us, and honestly, it’s not productive. It actually does the opposite of being productive. It puts us in a place of feeling defeated, and like we have no options and no choice, and we’re always going to be here because they are there. But if we turned this around and started loving people better, that’s what starts to change things. 

Now, when we talk about loving people, I know it’s hard when our feelings get hurt, or when we feel dumped on or taken advantage of, or unseen or unloved ourselves, and we’re going to get to that, we’re going to get to how we feel with the noes, but I just want to start here at loving other people because if you’re going to love people, you really need to understand them. Now, I know most of us would say, of course, I love people because Jesus loves people. But here’s the thing, do they feel loved by you? Because it’s really no good to say you love someone if they feel unloved.

Laurie Graham 8:48
So how we respond to a no, I’m going to tell you, it is a pretty powerful way to show some love. And you know what else? It’ll totally set you apart from everyone else in church ministry. They’re going to be curious. People that, if you, if they say no and you respond with love, honestly, they might even be a bit shocked because it doesn’t happen. When people say no, if instead of assuming they are busy or uncommitted, if you dig a little deeper, it’s going to shine the light of Jesus in a really different way. 

So let’s just look at a few of the reasons people say no. When you’re asking them to do something, why is it not a priority to them? So just a few things. One is, they just have other commitments, literally, physically during the time and space you’re asking for. That happens a lot. Another reason why people may not prioritize what you’re asking them to prioritize is simply that they’re dealing with things you don’t know about. Honestly, 90% of what is on someone’s mind, they are not sharing with you. So if you can even just have that in their mind, there may be things going on that you don’t know about, which is 1,000% true. Keep that in your mind. People deal with many things they will never share with you. Whether it is relational conflicts, health issues, sadness, grief, pressures at work, so many things. A third reason they may not prioritize what you want them to prioritize, is because they suffer from chronic health issues. This happens more often than most people realize. People with auto-immune issues, with depression, mental health struggles, exhaustion. And even if you know about these things, you may not understand the extent at which it affects what they can take on or prioritize. So just remember, that might be one of the reasons. 

Another reason people may say no, is because they are dealing with and caring for people who have all those issues. Many of us, our church is not the only place we are pouring out. People who are saying no to you for Sunday school, for helping with altar duties, for other things, they may be caring for people with chronic health issues, mental health issues, depression, they may be helping neighbors, family, extended family, caring for even elders in their own family. A fifth reason people say no, simply, they’re insecure, they’re scared of the unknown. They haven’t done it before, they don’t really understand the extent of what you’re asking them to do, and so saying no, is safer. A sixth reason volunteers say no, is because it’s not they’re, they’re scared of the unknown, they literally don’t feel safe or loved by you, by the church, by others, and there’s reasons for this.

Laurie Graham 11:57
A seventh reason which can be related to that one, too, is that they have had a terrible experience volunteering in the past. Either they’ve felt stuck forever, not set up to succeed. They haven’t been supported, they felt like failures. They were stuck in positions, volunteering with people who were unkind among the team. They have some bad past experiences that are coloring their image of volunteering with you. The eighth reason I’ll just mention here that people say no, because it’s really good to understand these and keep these in mind is they just have priorities that are not your priorities, which means they’re holding something of more importance and this is okay! I’m pretty sure I said this in my earlier series on the podcast about volunteers, but I am not surprised at all. When people say no, not anymore. I used to be, but quite honestly, I am surprised so many people still say yes to volunteering because there are 1,000,001 reasons to say no to volunteering. 

Can you think back to your own experiences, volunteering, even now if you’re burnt out or frustrated? How many terrible experiences have we had as volunteers ourselves? I’m betting you have your own war stories to share. Maybe in the past, when you were volunteering, somebody was just really mean to you. Maybe you felt like you were failing. And you were embarrassed because you literally did something in public volunteering, you’re like, I’m not doing that again. Maybe you were the odd person out and just never felt like you fit in. Maybe the person who was supposed to support you let you fail or even sabotaged your efforts. Maybe you spent time and effort and money doing something you were excited about and somebody just redid it or it wasn’t well received. So people saying no, and even having these past experiences like affect their future, this is a reality and we’re part of it, too. So the first part of this podcast episode is why people say no. The second part is what to do about it. So let’s get into that. 

I want to start by talking about what usually happens, what most people experience when they say no in the church and how we respond. In the vast majority of circumstances when we hear no, here’s what we typically do as a leader or as someone who’s asking for a volunteer. Number one, we take it personally. We feel let down, we feel unloved, or unprioritized ourselves. Maybe we even feel like we’re failing. We’re failing at getting volunteers and why is that? Like, we blame ourselves? We feel bad. There’s a problem. Either we’re unloved or we’re just failing. The second thing most of us do when we hear noes, is we judge them like it’s their fault, and let’s just talk about this, this is the norm. This is what usually happens.

Laurie Graham 15:07
We label people uncommitted, consumer Christians, they’re too busy, this is their problem. They don’t get it, they’re not with the mission. The third thing most of us do when we hear noes or one of the options, is getting bitter or angry, or we just suck it up and take on the extra burden. That job you were hoping to ask somebody else to do, now it’s ours, or it’s still ours and we are stuck. It is really important to address what’s going on in our own heart and soul when people say no to us. In fact, I’m going to be so bold to say that I believe it is godly to address your own heart before slipping back into the “let’s do it all” mentality. I believe God cares deeply about how we feel when people say no to us, and honestly, He cares more about your heart than about what you’re doing. 

We’ve got to address this, and this is why I want to say having compassion on people is a lot more productive than judging them for saying no. When they say no, responding with compassion is actually more productive. I’m not just talking about feeling the love. I’m talking about you getting volunteers or getting things done. When people say no, compassion is more productive, and here’s why. If we slip into feeling like a failure, or judging them, what does that do to us when we have jobs that we’re trying to find volunteers for? When we are feeling stuck, or overwhelmed or bogged down, or negative, do you know that our creative brains don’t work very well? It is very, very difficult to come up with creative solutions. When we are feeling stuck, beaten up, like we’re all alone, when we feel defeated, and this is why when people say no, hey, if we can have compassion, get to know them, figure out what’s going on, and not feeling like it all rests on us, I promise you, this is the better route to finding creative solutions.

And I just want to return to a foundational teaching that we talk about a lot. God has given you everything you need to do exactly what He wants you to do. So when we are relying on other people to help us to give us peace, to make us feel better, to get this job done, that’s not a great way to approach asking a volunteer because if you’re not okay with a no, if a no is going to leave you like in the dumps or in the pit, then it’s not really a request, is it? Let me say that again. If you’re asking a question of a volunteer, like, can you do this? Can you help? If you are asking for some volunteer job, if you’re not okay with a no, then it’s not a request at all. Because a request means people can say yes or no. If you’re not okay with a no, then what happens is that question you’re asking is really a demand. So if we can get back to the basics, and know we are only in charge, and remember this, we’re only in charge of our own walk, our own decisions.

Laurie Graham 18:27
We are not responsible for anyone else’s. We’re not in this place of demanding service, we’re requesting. If you’re requesting, you should be ready for a yes or no, and as long as the person you’re asking isn’t your flesh and blood and under the age of 18, we’re not in a position of demanding compliance, at least not in the context of church ministry. So are you okay with a no? If you’re asking a question, we need to learn to be okay with a no. Now one of the reasons I get hurt by nose is I just take them really personally, like why don’t you like me or why don’t you want to help me or can’t you see that I need your help. 

Now, a few months ago, I read the best book I have ever read on forgiveness. This might sound like a tangent, but I promise you it’s related. Actually, I’ve read this entire book twice now, word for word, and I’m going through it a third time, which is completely unusual for me. Because when I read a book normally I get partway through and I just start skimming. Either it’s because I’ve heard these things before or I kind of get the point, but not this book. So stick with me for a minute. The book is called Forgive for Good. Forgive for Good by Fred, Dr. Fred Luskin. There’s a brand new way for me in here to look at forgiveness, and what does this have to do with volunteers? Dr. Luskin is a science guy. He’s not a theologian, although I do believe he’s a Christian. He’s a science guy, a psychiatrist or a psychologist who has studied forgiveness, and he teaches forgiveness as a skill. It’s quite an amazing book, ut back to volunteers. 

Dr. Luskin talks about how humans form grievance stories, a grievance story, and one of the points he makes is that we just take things too personally. We forget that everything isn’t about us, and also that nothing we’re facing isn’t common to all humans. Now, that sounds kind of biblical, doesn’t it, that everything isn’t about us, and that what we’re facing is common to all humans. It’s good, right? So when someone says no, one of the best things to do well, two of the best things, is number one, don’t make it about you. Don’t take it too personally. The thing is, is that it is a little personal, because it does affect us, ut it’s also very impersonal.

Most of their decision to say no is not about you, it’s about them. It’s about their experiences, it’s about their priorities, it’s about their backstories. Keeping that in mind, that a no is at least half and probably more impersonal. It’s really good to remember. And the other thing to remember is that noes are completely common. We are all in this together, every single person in every church, big and small, all around the globe hears noes. You are not the only one that somebody said no to today. Even if you’re listening to this saying, hey, wait, I have no volunteers. I’m totally different. I promise you, I can find you 1,000 other people just today who are standing with you, and also will say, I have no volunteers. You’re not alone, and it’s okay. You see, God never made us responsible for the yeses of other people. You can totally be in the center of God’s will for you, experiencing God’s love, His peace, joining with God and what He’s doing, being an incredible influence and light for Him even if everyone around you says no. Your peace and your joy and your hope is not dependent on their saying yes, not even a little bit. 

Laurie Graham 22:18
Now we’ve got some habits and stuff that make us think this isn’t true, but it is totally true because God is a good God, and God is a good Father. He has not said that you, right now listening to this, that you can’t experience God’s peace and goodness, if other people don’t do what you want, or even what God wants them to do. When it comes down to volunteers, and when they say no, check your hearts. Don’t make it about you. It’s super common. Every, everybody hears noes. Take your heart to Jesus and get it in the right place, and how you know when you’re in the right place, is when you don’t feel animosity toward other people. When you are able to feel compassion for the person who just said no, even if they left you holding a big boulder of a rock of a job. When you can love them, not turning off, not building a wall, or maybe not adding a brick to the wall that maybe was already there, where you’ve already labeled them a consumer Christian, right?

You know, your hearts in the right place. I really believe this is how we know when we are right with God on the inside. When there’s no shame for you for failing or for them for saying no, and we just say okay, it is what it is. This person said no, and this is where I’m at. When your heart is in the right place, as Dr. Fred Luskin also says in his book, we’re able to connect back to the positive intention we had from the beginning. We want a good thing. We want this ministry to do good work, and we see all these pieces that need to be covered by different people. This is a good thing. You want volunteers who are eager to help and this is a good thing. Don’t lose that just because somebody says no. The reality is it doesn’t always work out the way that we hope. Sometimes people do have other priorities and they’re allowed. God’s given them free will. People say no, often, and some say yes! So this is a really good thing to get your heart right on the inside. When somebody says no, we’ve got to start with the inside. 

Now let’s get to the outside. How do we act if people say no, what is our next step if we had this job that needed to be done and we can’t do it? Here’s the thing. The result is not or, in my opinion, should not be that you do everything these people said no to. Now, this is a habit we’ve gotten into, especially in small churches. If they say no, well, I’ve got to do it. I’ve got to do more than I wanted to do because these people aren’t stepping up, they’re not holding up their end of the community of Christ.

Laurie Graham 25:07
Now, even though this usually ends up being the result, I want to tell you, it doesn’t need to be. If you go into the place where so many of us go into small churches of saying one more time, once again, if I want it done, I’m going to have to do it myself. Everybody says no, it’s all up to me. If the pastor ends up staying late cleaning up or the ministry head is doing all the shopping, the decor, leading it all, that family that leads worship, cuts their trip short to race back and lead worship, because no one else would do it. Think of it. This dependency on one family or one person or one staff member or you it leads to unhealthy leaders and unhealthy servants, too. It also leads to an unhealthy dependency within the church and an unhealthy church. It really does. 

God doesn’t want one person doing it all, it is not the way He set up the church. So what is the alternative? I would love to give you permission, even today, to just do less. If the volunteers aren’t there, do less. If this thought of doing less just struck panic in your heart or you’re like, no way can we stop the programs we’ve been doing, could you please just maybe consider exploring doing less? If you can’t think of doing less, could you just explore the thought of doing less? Like actually take some time to think about it, pray about it, consider it. What would church look like with less stress or less doing? Consider what is really needed in ministry, how Jesus did ministry, creative ways to meet needs in different ways. And consider what God desires of you, but maybe even this question a little different what God desires for you because sometimes we put so much weight on what God desires from us, as though He needs us to fulfill His mission.

What if instead, we thought about what God desires for us, because I’m pretty sure that you could think about what God desires other people to experience like His fullness and God’s grace and God’s love and His peace! This is the Gospel mission, sharing God’s love and peace for other people, but sometimes when we’ve been serving long time, we forget that God desires this for us also, that we experience His peace and His love. Because He does not want you used up and trampled down and feeling like a failure or feeling all alone. That is not what God desires for you, and there is a better way. 

Laurie Graham 28:11
When you’re struggling with a lack of volunteers or hearing a whole lot of noes, there are a few things that could be going on and they’re not about you failing or other people failing. Sometimes we’re just trying to do more than we should be doing, more than God’s calling us to do. If you don’t have the people to do it, you don’t just keep doing it. Can you imagine a restaurant trying to run on half a staff or a quarter of a staff? I don’t know if you’ve worked in restaurants, but I have. Do you know how many people it takes to run a full service restaurant? A restaurant with a quarter staff would be so much more successful if they scaled back and did one thing really well. Like, let’s say dessert, one of my favorite things. Have you ever been to crumble cookie? I don’t know if you have this in your part of the country or in your part of the world. But it’s quite an amazing little cookie restaurant, and I would give them amazing reviews, and you know what? They only do one thing really well, cookies. They don’t even do pies or cupcakes. They just do cookies, and you know what, people keep going back. If you don’t have enough volunteers, maybe you could do less?

You know what they call a church when a worship team doesn’t show up one Sunday?They call it a church. We can be a church without an organ or without a band, we really can. I’d love to leave you with one final thought. I was meeting with my friend Nancy last week, and she asked me this question. She asked if I thought about my life right now, what seems to be driving me or what do I feel driven by, and also, what am I feeling drawn to? I’ve been thinking about that question all week. What’s drawing me and what’s driving me? As I was thinking about this, the things that are drawing me are just so from Jesus, like, I’m feeling more drawn to some spiritual disciplines I used to do in the past, or I’m feeling more drawn to quiet.

Do you know what things are driving me? My own expectations. There’s a lot of pressure. There’s a lot of things I want to be doing. My Lists are driving me, and you know what, I think God is drawing me from the things that are driving me. Now, when I think about volunteers or serving in God’s kingdom, I’m thinking about Jesus and what He did. He drew people, He did not drive them. He invited them. There was no force, there was no pushing. He allowed people to say no, and they did it quite often, and amazingly, when people said no to Him, He continued to love them all the way to the death on a cross. Don’t think for a minute that He did not invite all those people to follow Him. He did, and they said no. We see disciples dropping their nets, like this is one of the greatest visuals of Jesus calling disciples. They drop their nets and follow Jesus.

Laurie Graham 31:25
You know what we don’t think about all the time, is how many people Jesus called that said no to Him. Every single person in the jeering crowd said no to Jesus and He did not label them, judge them or deny them. He did not build a wall between Him and them. He did not say, oh, you’re a consumer Christian. He loved them all the way to the cross. That was forgiveness and compassion. 

Now, I’m not that great at compassion, I’m growing in it, but when I’m talking about having compassion for people, I’m not talking about feeling better than them, like, I feel sorry that you won’t serve, and I feel sorry because you don’t get it. I’m literally talking about an open love, a compassion of forgiveness, of being okay when people say no. And instead of judging them and putting that upon them, and then taking all those things and putting it on on our heavy shoulders, because you said no, I have to bear it. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m saying being okay with their no, because God is too, and instead of putting ourselves in the driving position, putting ourselves in the drawing near position, of drawing nearer to Jesus and just inviting other people to join in. 

So why do volunteers say no, because they have free choice, because they’re allowed,because it’s okay. Because they have other priorities and other challenges, 99% of which you do not know about, because they have other things they love more right now, and it’s okay, it’s their walk. And what we’re supposed to do about it, is just keep walking our walk and stay in tight with Jesus, taking our hurt feelings and our judgments, and getting them right before the Lord, feeling peace and love and joy in our own walk with Jesus. And understanding that it is not dependent on their volunteering, and they’re saying yes, and then adjusting and pivoting when we wanted to yes, and we received a no to adjust and pivot and getting creative, and knowing that we can be more creative when we are in a place of peace and, and compassion with others, and not taking more burden on ourselves.

And of course, we become students of developing people. We want to get better at that, we want to get better at building relationships, at understanding what motivates people, being students of why people say yes and what they need and meeting needs, and learning how volunteers isn’t just about meeting our needs, of needing volunteers, but it actually meets their needs because God has called us all to be significant and to have influence. We are better humans, we are happier humans, when we realize that our service is so much about building others up in so many ways and it meets our needs at the same time, but getting our own hearts right and accepting noes and even expecting noes, getting our own priorities lined up, I’m gonna just tell you, that actually is what draws more volunteers. 

Laurie Graham 34:54
So, I’m not sure if this podcast is feeling practical to you or theoretical, but I want to tell you getting your heart right, being able to accept these noes is the most practical place to start because when it comes to drawing volunteers, it is a drawing process, not a driving process. We’re going to get more into more practical things in coming episodes, and again, if you haven’t heard Episodes 10 through 14, I am all about practical strategies, getting down to the basics, and doing things that make a difference. In fact, if you’re listening live, and you want more practical tools, about getting amazing with volunteers, this is a huge part of everything we teach at Small Church Ministry.

We have a live three part workshop happening this week. It’s a three part series, and it is completely free! It’s called the Volunteer Journey. We’re going to talk about the five steps every volunteer goes through in their journey from disinterested to devoted, plus how to avoid the biggest mistakes most churches make with volunteers. If you’re listening live, you can sign up to get the action guide, the PDF with it, the links to join and replay access. You can sign up at a link in the show notes. If you are not listening live, that link is still going to lead you to this free three part workshop series. We’re going to make sure that you can get to this no matter when you were listening to this podcast, but if you are listening live, you have an opportunity to catch the whole thing happening live with interaction this week happening Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday.

Again, if you can’t watch live, it’s totally fine. You will be able to watch later as well, but grab a link in the show notes. I don’t want you to miss it. This is the first time I’m actually sharing these five steps, shorter, like, 30 minute workshops with actionable steps at each one. We have so much great stuff coming up in this podcast. I do hope this was an encouragement to you. We’ve got great interviews coming up on everything from outreach to a few little Advent things as well. So get into those show notes and grab the link to this free three part series workshop called Volunteer Journey. You don’t want to miss this. And please, before you go, leave a review! It makes such a difference for people finding what they need to just be a light in their small churches all around the globe. So I’ll be back again next week. Hope to hang out with you then. Until then, be a light!