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Less kids doesn’t mean less stress, and it also doesn’t mean less prep. For children’s leaders and volunteers in smaller churches, the extra challenges of mixed-age classes, unpredictable numbers, and fewer volunteers add to the load. Listen in to this encouraging conversation with Tyler Bates from Amazing Kids.
He shares where your time can make the most impact on children’s lives including:
- The benefit of pastoring kids in a smaller church environment
- Why birthday calls & handwritten cards should move up on your priority list
- How making a difference in the life of one is absolutely worth your time
Links Mentioned:
Connect with Tyler:
https://amazing.kids/
https://www.instagram.com/amazingkidscurriculum/
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083: Children’s Ministry In Small Churches: Prioritizing Relationships Over Programming With Tyler Bates
Laurie Graham 0:01
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to the Small Church Ministry Podcast.
Laurie Graham 0:14
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Small Church Ministry Podcast, another super exciting person I just can’t wait for you to meet. I just met this man, and I just want everybody to know him. So I want to introduce you all to Tyler Bates who is the co-founder of Amazing Kids, along with his wife, Connie. So Tyler, just introduce yourself and let people know what Amazing Kids is.
Tyler Bates 0:37
Okay. Well, my name is Tyler Bates. I’m married to my wife, Connie. We have two kids. Bravery, she’s eight. Brightly and she’s four, and we have been on a journey of building something called Amazing Kids. I am a product of really well done kids ministry. I grew up in a pretty conservative Christian home. I was homeschooled, but grew up in a kids ministry that was not robust in like a, they had a lot of money. They actually had very little money, but had incredible pastors and people who shepherded and cared for us. And because of that, I had a really, really, really, I wouldn’t say easy life at all, but I had a really great foundation and a framework for faith. And I started interning at my church at 12. Wednesdays I would do kids ministry. Thursdays I would do worship. And then as I got older, went off, I graduated high school and went on tour with this thing called VeggieTales. I played Larry the cucumber on VeggieTales live. And it was like this wild ride of of things.
Tyler Bates 1:47
And after that decided to go to like a Bible school. So there’s this, I grew up in Houston, decided to go to Bible school at a place called Christ For The Nation’s Institute in Dallas. And, and while attending there got plugged in at a church up here in Dallas, and they offered me a job. So I got kind of thrust into the kids ministry world, and haven’t really left it since. And so it was a bigger church, and was on staff there for eight years and left to go plant a church with the pastor’s son and Austin, Texas, which if you know much about church world at all, like Dallas is kind of the buckle of what we call the Bible belt. So there’s like, you know, you spit and there’s another big church or like another, that’s awesome. Austin is not a part of the Bible belt. At all. It’s, it’s way more of a hard soil to till. And, but and so we planted this church, and it was my wife and I, we were the kids pastors, and it was one of our favorite seasons of ministry. We were it was.
Laurie Graham 2:54
And small church not a big church.
Tyler Bates 2:55
Small. Yeah, so like 75 to 80 people consistently on a week. And we had like, maybe 20 to 30 kids like that’s including nursery all the way through that.
Laurie Graham 3:03
Wow. That’s a lot of kids though, for a church of 70. Like, that’s still a pretty, pretty good slew of kids.
Tyler Bates 3:09
We had, because we were in a suburb of Austin, we had like families that live around. So we, like and there were some bigger families too. And so, but it was, it was one of our favorite seasons. And then in COVID, we shut the church down. Austin, as a city, shut down, and we had to close our doors. So we came back up to Dallas and joined staff again at the church we had been at. And recently, God was really kind and sweet and asked if we’d be willing to step out. And we stepped out. And have been building something called Amazing Kids, which is church curriculum for kids and for churches of all sizes. And that’s kind of the short version.
Laurie Graham 3:53
That’s awesome. Before we talk about Amazing K ids, and just some really great tips and solutions. I know we’re gonna get to that, you know, for people in small churches doing children’s ministry, there’s like 18 things in your story that I want to ask you about, but let me just highlight a couple because like, you share that you were a product of a really well done kids ministry. And I love that you even shared that because when I talked to people about children’s ministry, and when I used to do it, one thing I always kept in my mind was if some child like stayed with us, you know, through high school through graduation, what would I want to see in their life? And I think when we have that vision beyond just we’re teaching Sunday school, or we’re running VBS, like, who do we want this person to be, like who do we want them to become? Like, when you said that, that reminded me of it. And I think sometimes we forget the impact we have on a life because we’re so busy, like trying to get the curriculum done, like we forget that there’s so much influence. And do you believe that influence is even found in a small church? Because I know you’ve done big church ministry, really big church ministry, medium church ministry, small church ministry. Can you talk about the influence somebody really has in a small church, on children?
Tyler Bates 5:00
Oh, it’s It’s massive, and I think there’s a lot, I have a lot of opinions on that. But my friend, Sam Lewis, who’s a kids pastor in New York, up in New York, he talks about, like, you know, as pastors we’re called to shepherd, and one of my favorite things that he says is, you know, we count to 100, our sheep, not so that we can get to a place to where it’s like, we have 100 sheep, and we go to a conference with other pastors and other shepherds who have 100 sheep, and talk about how we’re going to grow our sheep to 200 sheep and 300 sheep, but we can’t do 100. So that when we get to 99, we don’t look at it as a low or, like down weekend, we know that someone is missing. And so, we, and we know the name of that person. And so we check in and we call and so there’s a bit of a, there was a study done, why, a while ago, and I hate that I’m about to be the person, that’s like, I read somewhere, but it’s fine, I’ll actually quote it, I’ll find it. But there’s a, there’s an actual limit to the amount of knowledge or information that your brain can hold. We have known that for a while. But even with people in relationships, they say the average is about 140 to 150 people.
And so when you’re in a small church, you have the ability to walk into a place where you know everybody, and it’s not that, it’s not just that you know them, that’s not what you brag about, but that you’re also known by them, and you may be closer with some people than others, but like, we all do life together. We know that when like the message response time is this or worship is this, and so and so has been walking through this all week. It’s like, oh, my goodness, God is like ministering right now to our needs. And I’m so happy for all of us. And so there’s a bit of when it comes to kids ministry in a small like setting, we look at it as like, okay, we’re just kind of waiting till it grows or takes off, but there’s so much more value, I think, and tremendous opportunity to invest in a kid’s life, because there’s, there’s a small space and like, there was a study that they did back in 1991. I was negative one years old.
Tyler Bates 7:07
So but so but some people may remember they did this thing called the Biosphere Two where they built a BioDome, and the idea was they picked like seven scientists, ended up being eight, to go in, and they were going to live here for three years. And like, if you look it up online or Google it, it’s really funny because it’s all these people dressed up in like space uniforms, and they like they were feeling themselves for sure. Like they like posing really cool and, but the idea was, let’s build a biodome and see if we can grow and nurture things in a controlled environment so that we could maybe do it on the moon or in ours and stuff like that. So they started this study, and they had everything like they, the atmosphere was perfect. The soil was perfect. They brought in plants from all around the world, like the best seeds, everything. They planted it here, and everything started to grow like they had a natural water filtration system, everything was going, but early on in the study, they started finding that the trees, although they would grow faster than what they had seen, like in an outside study, like not in a controlled environment, the trees would grow to full maturity quicker than they would outside of a biodome or controlled atmosphere, but they actually like toppled over and died faster as well, and they couldn’t figure it out.
So they kept like changing this the soil. They kept changing the water. They were trying to make sure it had direct sunlight, and they couldn’t figure it out, like they couldn’t figure it out. And finally one of the scientists realized that they were missing one element, and it was wind. And so they realized that when wind hits a tree or most plants, what it does is like on trees, it creates something called stress woods. So it makes the bark tougher, but it actually causes the tree to grow deeper roots so that when it goes through harder winds are harder storms, it doesn’t get knocked over, the roots have been grown deep. And so wind was essential in making sure that plants and trees had a good life and grew stronger and bigger. And so what I think we’ve semi-done and church world sometimes is like, especially with a big corporation, is we build our own biodomes. And so, we make everything like we have everything you need. We have everything you could want. We have everything perfectly lined up.
Tyler Bates 9:21
And, and then what happens though, is we don’t set families or kids up for like when real life happens. Like when real life happens, I may not be able because I have 1,000 kids in my ministry, I don’t know if I’m able to, like be there for you as your pastor. But also, did I equip you for this wind? Because Jesus told us in this world, we were gonna have troubles and tribulations and trials, but to take heart because He’s overcome the world. And so, in a small church environment, I think there’s an ability to prepare kids. It could be easier. I’m not saying it’s always easier. I’m not saying that bigger churches can’t do it, but in a small church environment, I think there’s an ability to walk with kids in life, and to help them when wind hits and rain hits, it doesn’t topple them over. But it helps them grow their roots down deeper. So that later on in life when the storms come the way the rain doesn’t wash them away, it just like waters, the seed that’s been planted in their heart and their roots grow deeper and like they grow closer towards Jesus. So that’s why I love like smaller churches, because there’s a there’s a ripe opportunity to do that with kids.
Laurie Graham 10:25
Yeah, I love that so much. So when you’re talking about like kids ministry and stuff, so many times we think of the struggles we have as like interruptions, or like distractions to, to our curriculum or to our message, and really, when things go wrong, like even in ministry, when we end up with one kid when we thought we were planning for five, or you know, these mixed age distractions, or when we have somebody in our room with a differing ability, right? Like, we think this is an interruption to the curriculum, but all these struggles, even as ministers, not even as children, but even as ministers, like, that’s the wind that’s growing us stronger. And I think when we embrace that, I love that. And by the way, if you ever want to visit the Biosphere Two, it’s like, half an hour from me.
Tyler Bates 11:06
No way!
Laurie Graham 11:07
Yeah! You can go there, you can visit the Biosphere too.
Tyler Bates 11:09
That’s amazing.
Laurie Graham 11:11
Down here in Oracle, Arizona, so I’m in Tuscon, so it’s very fun. You know, I want to mention one other thing. So Sam Lewis is a real person, you know, Sam Lewis?
Tyler Bates 11:20
Yeah, yeah.
Laurie Graham 11:21
So I quoted him at our very first Kidmin conference, because I love, he talked about our churches need to be more like Mr. Rogers and less like Disney, more like that relational, you know, that relational come into my living room instead of all this entertainment. And so I have quoted him and I always wondered, is he real person? So how fun that you’re friends?
Tyler Bates 11:42
Yeah! Yeah, he’s great. He came in town a couple months ago, actually, we did this free resource for kids pastors, and he did a keynote for it. And like talked about the priorities of being a kids pastor, like shepherding kids. He’s one of my favorite voices on all that.
Laurie Graham 11:57
So let me ask you a question, because I know you’re not only a kids minister, but, but you, you relate to other people who work in different sized churches, and you’ve been around them, there’s something that happens, and I’m just curious how you would maybe encourage someone or help do a mind shift like, we do feel a little less when we have less kids, like, we’re not being as successful, because if we did it, right, we’d get more kids, or this would grow, or those families would stay. And I definitely have a lot of pushback for that because I really believe God is working in every situation, in every person, and like, you know, that we would have the audacity to think that God’s not in our midst, you know, with one or with zero sometimes. Like, if no one shows up, God is still working, you know, but how would you, how would you encourage somebody who’s a Sunday school teacher, maybe not a paid children’s director, but a Sunday school teacher who’s pouring their, their time and effort, and maybe they’re not getting the response they wish they had?
Tyler Bates 11:57
We get, we get teased a lot, I think with the a lot of people say it, so I don’t think I get attribute it to one person, but you know, healthy things grow. And we usually and that’s not untrue. That’s I mean, that is just a principle like, absolutely, but I think we a lot of the time just attribute that to bodies or numbers in a room. And the reality is, is like, God grows good things, and so growth isn’t just in like, like numbers or like in capacity. It’s also like, deep like I, so I see our opportunity. So if you’re a kids pastor that’s pouring into the life of, or a kids minister, or a part time or a volunteer, we can get disheartened at times, because it feels like it should be growing. If this was, quote unquote, successful, why isn’t this growing? And you think through like, so kids would be inviting their friends if this was good. And the reality is, is it’s God’s job to bring people in. It’s not ours, like the Holy Spirit is the one who draws, the Holy Spirit is the one who brings people in. And our job is to steward. So we’re going to steward what God’s put in front of us, whether it’s one or 100, we steward it well.
And it’s easy for us to get caught up in like, well, if it was going well, we would see growth in our numbers. But the reality is, you might not be seeing growth in your numbers, but are you seeing growth in the children that you’re speaking into? Do they look more like Jesus this week than they did last week? Is there, are you are you shaping them and molding them in their Christ-ilkeness? And do they look more like Jesus, as you’re having simple conversations with them, that doesn’t mean that you’re, you know, walking through systematic theology with them every week, but it means that you’re able to help them see who Jesus is, and try to follow and model their lives and allow them to let the Holy Spirit like, shape them and mold them into the image of Jesus.
Laurie Graham 14:54
Yeah.
Tyler Bates 14:55
And so I think that that’s the most beautiful thing whether we have 1,000 kids are we have one kid, like we get to steward whatever it is. And I have seen, like when we steward whatever God puts in our hands, he rewards it, and He blesses it better than what we could have ever imagined it would be.
Laurie Graham 15:12
Yeah, yeah. And you know, the reality is some kid, as well as adults, would not thrive in a huge environment, or in a busy environment, or, you know, we have no idea, I think a lot of growth happens that we do not see. Like, if you think about these huge trees, right, the ones that grow quickly, are not often the strongest. And even we don’t see that the micro growth that’s happening, and providing a safe place, for one could be changing the world. Providing a safe, loving place for three kids could truly change not just their world, but the world. Because we all have so much influence beyond our little centers, right, this ripple effect. And I really do, I just love what you’re saying, because the Kingdom impact, influence, and responsibility that we have, with one, with two, with the person we meet, walking down the street, like that kingdom impact that we have, that responsibility is so huge. And so yeah, whatever we’re doing in our churches, whoever is coming in, so important.
Okay. I told you, Tyler, before we get on that we had to get practical, just really like, you know, these strategic solutions, because our audience, we like, hey, what can we do different? What can we do different? And you and I are just having a huge conversation, which to me is like, such at the heart of children’s ministry. But, because I promised everybody that we’d have some practical tips and solutions here, what do you see as some of the biggest challenges, like in the smaller church environment, you know, with mixed ages, and you know, not knowing what our numbers are? Where do you see, people, kind of, get off maybe from what they could be focusing on for greater impact?
Tyler Bates 16:57
For me, so I’ll say when I went, especially when, again, we, my wife, and I, we were a part of, like, kids pastoring at a smaller church.
Laurie Graham 17:05
Yeah.
Tyler Bates 17:06
You wear all the hats. So, and a lot of the time, where that falls into place is like, if you look at your week, from like, weekend to next weekend, like it’s you, there’s like a task list in your brain, but like, and everything gets prioritized, and so it’s hard to figure out, like, where are my priorities in this and I find that a lot of the times people, they want to follow up with families, and they want to take that volunteer or, like, you know, follow up with like a worker or congregation member to coffee. Like they want to do all that, but it’s like, I have to curate all of the crafts for the nursery and I have to, like, load up these videos or lesson supplies and get like, make sure scripts go out or make sure like, you know, there’s like 1,000 things we do and like trying to reorient like what are our priorities, and how do we like, decide what works best is really hard. And I think sometimes the trap I see some, like smaller church people I fell in it, too, is that we put like a lot of our focus on the programming side of our ministry.
Laurie Graham 18:11
Yeah.
Tyler Bates 18:12
So, because that’s the part that parents come in, when they drop their kids off, that’s what they see, and so we have a hard time not letting that be the main focus. When in reality, it’s probably a third of what our job should be. That doesn’t mean that it makes it, what I’m saying does not make it any easier, like you want it to be a good experience for kids, but I have found when my, my greatest weeks were when I felt like I had time to make birthday calls. So I would call kids like that’s like the biggest win with families when like you just have a list of kids when it’s their birthday, and you call them and sing Happy Birthday. And if you don’t get their, like they’re at school or they’re not home, then I would we would record a video. Like we just record a video on our phone and send it to their parents, be like Malikai it’s your birthday! Happy Birthday, and like sing along and dance. And that was super fun. Sending postcards to them, like, just like, we would have little postcards to follow up just saying we’re so glad you were here this weekend, like can’t believe, like we get to hang out with you.
And then also, I’m going to the schools like that was the biggest, not going to schools to try and get kids to come to our ministry but like knowing the schools that our kids were in, we would just go have lunch with them. And like that was so and like to watch the kids face light up when they got to show their friends that their pastor like their kids pastor or the person that hangs out with them on the weekend is here having lunch with them, they felt so cool and so awesome. And so, I think that’s the tension we see sometimes is, as shepherds of these kids, shepherds do have to make sure that the sheep are eating good things, like we don’t want them eating things that are going to harm them. But a shepherds job isn’t just fully making sure that, like if, they don’t get to spend all week preparing one meal for their sheep to eat.
Tyler Bates 19:56
They have to keep them moving. They have to keep them grazing they have to keep them out of harm. They have to go find them and get them out of ditches. And so I think for us in small churches, we have to be careful not just to make it all about like, well, I’m gonna like plant this grass, and I’m going to make sure I’m mowing it well, and the sheep are gonna love this food. It’s like, that’s great. You have to make sure that you’re building a firm foundation. But it’s like a third, you know, and so we have to make sure that we’re constantly and consistent in those kids lives because you may be Jesus to them. Like their first encounter with Jesus may be actually Mr. Tyler, or Miss Laurie, and like the way that you love them and care for them and check in on them and disciple them, is how they’re going to see Jesus for their early formative years of life.
Laurie Graham 20:39
So you are a trained children’s person, you are trained children’s minister. You know, you’ve done this in big churches, midsize churches, little churches, and we have so many small churches in our community where it’s literally a 65 year old grandma, who was recruited to teach Sunday school, or we’ve got, you know, a busy dad who has a full time job and somebody said, Hey, we need you to teach Sunday school. And I think this is where sometimes in small churches, we’re kind of missing it. Because we’re asking people to teach Sunday school, but without any training, I’m telling you right now, some people are like, wait, I’m supposed to make a birthday call. Like that was never on my agenda. That was never even a thought, like that could change some kid’s life? And so like mind blowing, when we’re just asking people to please come teach Sunday school, or, you know, busy pastor says, oh, my gosh, we need a kid’s program, can you just do this? But I think it’s so important to remember, this is part of pastoring. This is part of relational ministry, and in small churches, what a cool opportunity, because you’ve only got three kids, you can call, make three birthday calls. Oh my gosh.
Tyler Bates 21:40
You can go to a lunch once a week, like, you know what I mean?
Laurie Graham 21:45
Well, three times a year is all it would be even if you did it once, you know. And so, I think for busy people listening to understand, this isn’t more things, this isn’t overwhelming. This is more important.
Tyler Bates 21:57
Yes. Yeah.
Laurie Graham 21:59
And Tyler, the other day, when you and I talked, to you mentioned this curriculum that you’re creating with your wife, and, you know, that you poured into, and I think it’s changed a little bit along the way, and how you’re delivering it and all that, but you mentioned that your desire is to do this, so that people in small churches can spend more time pastoring. Do you remember that you said that to me?
Tyler Bates 22:18
Yeah. Yeah.
Laurie Graham 22:19
Talk about that a little bit.
Tyler Bates 22:19
Yeah, during 2020 we saw a lot of churches, as everyone did, get forced, they were forced online, and everyone had to create these experiences.
Laurie Graham 22:34
Or try to.
Tyler Bates 22:35
Or try too, yeah, and then coming out of 2020, like into 2021, we started meeting again, and everyone started coming back together, I was a little disheartened by how a lot of kids pastors and it’s not necessarily on them, it could have been their, their senior pastor was like, hey, this is great, like, keep this going, but they stayed in kind of the content creator mode, like everybody had all of a sudden be content experts and content creators. And, and so, when we came back into it, we didn’t get a lot of kids pastors coming back. We just had like content people and like they dabbled or like their hobby was pastoring.
Laurie Graham 23:07
And so by this, just because you’re using terminology that some people might not use them their normal everyday, like the content creator, by this, what I’m picturing is, we kind of went into this mode of giving them content, giving them the lesson, but we, we removed ourselves relationally because COVID kind of forced that. And now that we’re coming back, we’re still focused on the content and we kind of have lost that. Is that kind of what you’re saying?
Tyler Bates 23:33
Yeah. We kind of just lost, yeah, that’s, we lost our priority of like, let’s pastor, the kids. And so, our heart and all of this as we started to build our kids curriculum was called Amazing Kids, and it stemmed from, one we just really love, like, I love building curriculum that teaches kids, not just who God is, but His character, and then it builds a framework, like we, I was talking with a friend the other day about building a framework that they can grow into, not out of. And so, it’s it’s.
Laurie Graham 24:08
Ooh I love that! Say that, again.
Tyler Bates 24:10
It’s, it’s building a faith framework that they grow into and not out of, and there’s a, there’s a difference between distilling something and dumbing it down. And so, a lot of times with kids ministry, it’s like, well, we just have to kind of dumb down this big theological concept. And we don’t mean that in a degrading way. That’s just how we approach it. Whereas distilling is actually taking something and, and distilling it down to its purest form. And for kids, we have to do that, make it bite size, but not let it lose its potency. It doesn’t lose its, like all of its power in it. And so I love doing that. And when we were part of pastoring at a smaller church, there were so much and like putting on a program every week and it was like sorting through content and curriculum and what’s best out there and how do I, and then how do I make it happen in a room but also be out at check in for families and then also making sure that my volunteers are good and like or like I have kindergarten through sixth grade or fifth grade and all in one room. And like, how does this work?
And so, in that we built something that is, our heart is like, let us do the content so that you can connect, you can connect with your families and your kids, and it’s not meant to be just like a push, play and like, let a video go, but what the reality is, is, I promise that we can minister to your kids, I promise every week there’s there’s moments where we look at how God is interacting with us, and what is the Holy Spirit leading us into truth wise, and then trying to free pastors up to be able to pastor again, and we have free resources and like, like you guys have great resources, too, about let the program happen. Like if we could program so that you can pastor I always say we’re not a plug and play. We’re a plug in pastor.
Tyler Bates 25:51
So like, it’s delivered through an Apple TV app. So, you like, we, we’ll send you an Apple TV, and you can subscribe, and every week it refreshes. And then we have a phone app that coincides. So it’s that’s free for parents, and they don’t have to put their email in or we’re not trying to capture anybody’s emails or whatnot. And every week it updates so parents can also see what their kids have been learning. So it’s like their conversation cards, Bible stories, the memory verse, and that refreshes every week. So parents can be involved in their kids spiritual formation. And we can give kids pastors time and their week back to connect with families and connect with kids and connect with volunteers and connect with themselves and feel like they have a breath to be filled up so that their ministry is coming from overflow.
Laurie Graham 26:39
Okay, so my friends in small churches, they just went to cha ching, cha ching, cha ching, and you just lost them at Apple TV. So how do they, tell us more. Like how does a church who has no money afford an Apple TV and this fancy curriculum that they’re not even sure what to do with?
Tyler Bates 26:56
Call me, because our heart is to make sure that that’s never a roadblock. The, that would never be a roadblock. One, we would send you one, and then we have a really great integration process, like videos that explain how to utilize and use it. So it’s not just like here, buy it, and figure it out. Like we will walk you through the implementation of it. And especially when it comes to the purchase price, especially for people part of the Small Church Ministry Network, I am more than willing to negotiate a price that works for you, like and when I say negotiate, I mean, like, just give me a call and I promise we’ll probably find something that works.
Laurie Graham 27:36
You all, we connect with the most amazing people here at Small Church Ministry. I’m just telling you, like, we just had a conference for a pastor spouses and we had all these giveaways, Tyler, we had gave away over $14,000 worth of like, rest stays, three nights, four nights, a whole week, like at this amazing place in South Dakota. And like, I think people in small churches, like we forget that there’s people out there rooting for it, like.
Tyler Bates 28:01
Yeah.
Laurie Graham 28:01
You know, like I’m, they’re trying to support us, they’re given us all they can and sometimes we just need to say okay, okay, let’s see what we can do with this. Instead of going, oh, I can’t do that either, right? Like I think sometimes we get in a place, and I love your message, Tyler, I love your heart, and I just think it’s just so like Jesus to be able to focus on who we’re with. Like, you talked about 150 friends or relationships early on, and when we talk about that, like for you all working in children’s ministry or in small churches in any area, you know, Jesus, I know Jesus had a lot of followers, he had more than 12, right? So when you really look at where He poured His time, and then even down to the three, like, this is like, this is, I think it’s the Peter Scazzero who talks about God-given limitations. Like, we have God-given limitations. God did not create us as humans, to have deep relationships with 400 people or even 100 children, because you have to throw in your family and adults, right. So if we could have deep, life changing relationships with 3 or 12, I’m telling you, I just think that’s so where Jesus would be at.
Tyler Bates 29:10
Yep, I agree. I’m with you.
Laurie Graham 29:13
Yeah. So how do they find Amazing Kids? Like, how can we look you up? I mean, I looked you up and I’m like, follow you on Instagram, and I’m on your YouTube channel, and but I think some of that’s even a little maybe older, that you’re not still doing in the same way anymore. Is that right?
Tyler Bates 29:26
Yeah. Yeah, that was all from our, when we were pastoring at the church in Austin. We’re getting ready to, we haven’t officially, even officially launched yet. So, like everyone here is actually probably hearing more than anyone else in the world has heard, but if you go to, like it’s, it’s amazing.kids. So instead of .com, it’s just .kids. So if you type in the word amazing.kids into your web browser, our website is there. And you can get in contact with us through that. And I mean, I would say, again, because, my wife and I, we love, love, love, love the small church expression. And I don’t think it should feel like a diss to say small, like that, it’s awesome. Like, we own that, because we love it, like we’d be like willing to do. There’s like, I mean, I’m telling you, I would go 75% off for anybody that’s in this like Small Church Network, it’s basically just be covering the overhead fee of the like, putting it on an Apple TV app. But besides that, like, find us reach out. I, like we, our heart isn’t to grow into something big. That’s, I would say for Amazing Kids. Like, we’re not trying to be this big, big, big thing. We’re just trying to make an impact with the people that God is already using around the world, and I think, like churches, especially small churches, have the greatest, greatest opportunity to do that.
Laurie Graham 30:49
Yeah, so sweet. Well, I am just so grateful for this conversation for meeting you. I’m so grateful that you reached out like it was just such a godsend, you know, just to have somebody who can speak into the hearts of small churches and into KidsMin. But they’re, they don’t even have to do that to find you because you’re going to be speaking at one of our conferences coming up!
Tyler Bates 31:08
Yep, I’m excited. Excited!
Laurie Graham 31:12
We are so excited. We have a Christmas conference coming up. It’s our so this is our 13th online conference since September, like for small churches, and we have the best time. It’s super interactive, and really fun, but this is the first year we’re actually, we’re doing our Christmas conference. It’s called A Small Church Christmas. And it’s all about less stress and more impact for congregations during the holidays because we miss so much impact on our communities. You know, we get so, just stressed out by everything going on in the world, we’re doing these programs that are, you know, adding more stress and fear for children even right, like when they do those programs.
And so we’re talking about innovative ideas, you know, way to reach your community in a way that’s ongoing, not a one and done thing. And so this conference is happening on September 23rd. It’s a Saturday. We’re trying to get the date out earlier because every conference people say later, I wish I had known, I wish I’d known ,and they’re like literally reach out to me with sad faces saying why didn’t I know? So September 23rd is the date. And Tyler is going to be there with us. Do you know what you’re speaking on yet? Because we haven’t really nailed it down.
Tyler Bates 32:15
I mean, I, Christmas is my favorite season. So I will speak on any and all things. But I think when it comes to churches, there’s a lot of really low-hanging fruit that we can utilize, that doesn’t add stress to our already very busy and full schedule. So I think I’m excited for everyone to come in. We can all hang out.
Laurie Graham 32:36
Yeah, I love it. I was even thinking about kids over Christmas, as we’ve been brainstorming different things to talk about and how much stress there is for parents over Christmas, but we don’t always think how much stress that is for kids. Like their whole schedule is is upheaved. Whether it’s, whether they’re like in school, normal or even homeschool, like, everything gets thrown out, the kids who have no money are going from school lunches to being at home. Like I mean, there’s just even gifts, my parents don’t have enough to give me that or I want that and we have tons of money, but my parents aren’t paying. Like I just think there’s a lot of stress around the holidays, don’t you?
Tyler Bates 33:09
It’s, it’s one of the most, for, I think, a lot of times, we focus on adults being stressed at Christmas, whereas for kids, it’s actually just as anxiety-ridden, can be just as anxiety-ridden and sad, if we’re not helping them focus on the things we should be focusing on.
Laurie Graham 33:24
Yeah, yeah. And let’s just say it. In small churches, we’re able to.
Tyler Bates 33:27
Yep!
Laurie Graham 33:27
In small churches, we are able to focus on the one, and the two, and the three, and the five, and even the 20, right? And just, just be in Jesus’ light where we are. So, okay, Tyler, is there anything that I didn’t ask you or that’s burning on your heart? Like, oh my gosh, I want to say that.
Tyler Bates 33:44
No, other than I am so thankful that you let, you like, I’m honored that you even let me come on and to anyone who’s watching. I am, I am, an awe, and I am so happy that you’re doing what you’re doing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It’s because of you that people like me exist because you took time and you’re taking time to invest in the Kingdom. And that is an investment that never ever, ever, ever runs dry. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Laurie Graham 34:12
Well, that’s very sweet. So we have to end you know, not focused on me because I just can’t end like that. So you had a little kid come up to you in the restaurant, right? And say you’re the guy who’s on TV. Can you tell that story?
Tyler Bates 34:23
It was, it was a sushi restaurant, and the church we were at, it was a bigger church and it had quite a few campuses. And so, because I was over the next gen content and was in the videos that would play at these campuses. They’re on screens and so we were sitting down, and a tiny child, sweet kid came up and was like, you’re the guy on TV, like so loud. And, and so, I was you know, like, oh, hey, what’s your name? My name is Mr. Tyler and like talking, and all these people around us, I can tell are trying to figure out like, is this guy famous? He doesn’t look famous. He looks like he’s 15 years old, like and so having to like, I, it’s, it’s just from our church like, I’m not really on TV, I promise. Like, he’s, he’s just saying that and so, but it was, it happens. It’s really funny when it does happen.
Laurie Graham 35:09
Isn’t that true though, that everybody is famous to somebody?
Tyler Bates 35:13
Everybody’s famous to somebody. Absolutely.
Laurie Graham 35:16
And in children’s ministry, I’m just telling you small churches, even that, that kid who comes every other week, or three times a year, or that teenager who walks in looking all rebellious, and like they they’d rather be anywhere else, if you’re that person who remembers a birthday or who reaches out or gives a smile when everybody else is scowling, like, like that’s how, that’s how we’re famous to one person. And so, I just love it. I love it so much.
Tyler Bates 35:41
I love it too.
Laurie Graham 35:41
Tyler, thank you so much for being with us. We are looking forward to knowing you more partnering more, letting people know more about your resources. I’d love for you to guest blog on the website so people can even get other, other KidMin tips for you, even from you, even beyond you know even beyond Amazing Kids because you have so much to offer, but we will definitely be looking back for the September 23rd conference A Small Church Christmas and hear from Tyler about making an impact with kids over the Christmas season in a new and fresh way. And thanks for being with us. So until next week, you all be a light.
Laurie Graham 0:01
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to the Small Church Ministry Podcast.
Laurie Graham 0:14
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Small Church Ministry Podcast, another super exciting person I just can’t wait for you to meet. I just met this man, and I just want everybody to know him. So I want to introduce you all to Tyler Bates who is the co-founder of Amazing Kids, along with his wife, Connie. So Tyler, just introduce yourself and let people know what Amazing Kids is.
Tyler Bates 0:37
Okay. Well, my name is Tyler Bates. I’m married to my wife, Connie. We have two kids. Bravery, she’s eight. Brightly and she’s four, and we have been on a journey of building something called Amazing Kids. I am a product of really well done kids ministry. I grew up in a pretty conservative Christian home. I was homeschooled, but grew up in a kids ministry that was not robust in like a, they had a lot of money. They actually had very little money, but had incredible pastors and people who shepherded and cared for us. And because of that, I had a really, really, really, I wouldn’t say easy life at all, but I had a really great foundation and a framework for faith. And I started interning at my church at 12. Wednesdays I would do kids ministry. Thursdays I would do worship. And then as I got older, went off, I graduated high school and went on tour with this thing called VeggieTales. I played Larry the cucumber on VeggieTales live. And it was like this wild ride of of things.
Tyler Bates 1:47
And after that decided to go to like a Bible school. So there’s this, I grew up in Houston, decided to go to Bible school at a place called Christ For The Nation’s Institute in Dallas. And, and while attending there got plugged in at a church up here in Dallas, and they offered me a job. So I got kind of thrust into the kids ministry world, and haven’t really left it since. And so it was a bigger church, and was on staff there for eight years and left to go plant a church with the pastor’s son and Austin, Texas, which if you know much about church world at all, like Dallas is kind of the buckle of what we call the Bible belt. So there’s like, you know, you spit and there’s another big church or like another, that’s awesome. Austin is not a part of the Bible belt. At all. It’s, it’s way more of a hard soil to till. And, but and so we planted this church, and it was my wife and I, we were the kids pastors, and it was one of our favorite seasons of ministry. We were it was.
Laurie Graham 2:54
And small church not a big church.
Tyler Bates 2:55
Small. Yeah, so like 75 to 80 people consistently on a week. And we had like, maybe 20 to 30 kids like that’s including nursery all the way through that.
Laurie Graham 3:03
Wow. That’s a lot of kids though, for a church of 70. Like, that’s still a pretty, pretty good slew of kids.
Tyler Bates 3:09
We had, because we were in a suburb of Austin, we had like families that live around. So we, like and there were some bigger families too. And so, but it was, it was one of our favorite seasons. And then in COVID, we shut the church down. Austin, as a city, shut down, and we had to close our doors. So we came back up to Dallas and joined staff again at the church we had been at. And recently, God was really kind and sweet and asked if we’d be willing to step out. And we stepped out. And have been building something called Amazing Kids, which is church curriculum for kids and for churches of all sizes. And that’s kind of the short version.
Laurie Graham 3:53
That’s awesome. Before we talk about Amazing K ids, and just some really great tips and solutions. I know we’re gonna get to that, you know, for people in small churches doing children’s ministry, there’s like 18 things in your story that I want to ask you about, but let me just highlight a couple because like, you share that you were a product of a really well done kids ministry. And I love that you even shared that because when I talked to people about children’s ministry, and when I used to do it, one thing I always kept in my mind was if some child like stayed with us, you know, through high school through graduation, what would I want to see in their life? And I think when we have that vision beyond just we’re teaching Sunday school, or we’re running VBS, like, who do we want this person to be, like who do we want them to become? Like, when you said that, that reminded me of it. And I think sometimes we forget the impact we have on a life because we’re so busy, like trying to get the curriculum done, like we forget that there’s so much influence. And do you believe that influence is even found in a small church? Because I know you’ve done big church ministry, really big church ministry, medium church ministry, small church ministry. Can you talk about the influence somebody really has in a small church, on children?
Tyler Bates 5:00
Oh, it’s It’s massive, and I think there’s a lot, I have a lot of opinions on that. But my friend, Sam Lewis, who’s a kids pastor in New York, up in New York, he talks about, like, you know, as pastors we’re called to shepherd, and one of my favorite things that he says is, you know, we count to 100, our sheep, not so that we can get to a place to where it’s like, we have 100 sheep, and we go to a conference with other pastors and other shepherds who have 100 sheep, and talk about how we’re going to grow our sheep to 200 sheep and 300 sheep, but we can’t do 100. So that when we get to 99, we don’t look at it as a low or, like down weekend, we know that someone is missing. And so, we, and we know the name of that person. And so we check in and we call and so there’s a bit of a, there was a study done, why, a while ago, and I hate that I’m about to be the person, that’s like, I read somewhere, but it’s fine, I’ll actually quote it, I’ll find it. But there’s a, there’s an actual limit to the amount of knowledge or information that your brain can hold. We have known that for a while. But even with people in relationships, they say the average is about 140 to 150 people.
And so when you’re in a small church, you have the ability to walk into a place where you know everybody, and it’s not that, it’s not just that you know them, that’s not what you brag about, but that you’re also known by them, and you may be closer with some people than others, but like, we all do life together. We know that when like the message response time is this or worship is this, and so and so has been walking through this all week. It’s like, oh, my goodness, God is like ministering right now to our needs. And I’m so happy for all of us. And so there’s a bit of when it comes to kids ministry in a small like setting, we look at it as like, okay, we’re just kind of waiting till it grows or takes off, but there’s so much more value, I think, and tremendous opportunity to invest in a kid’s life, because there’s, there’s a small space and like, there was a study that they did back in 1991. I was negative one years old.
Tyler Bates 7:07
So but so but some people may remember they did this thing called the Biosphere Two where they built a BioDome, and the idea was they picked like seven scientists, ended up being eight, to go in, and they were going to live here for three years. And like, if you look it up online or Google it, it’s really funny because it’s all these people dressed up in like space uniforms, and they like they were feeling themselves for sure. Like they like posing really cool and, but the idea was, let’s build a biodome and see if we can grow and nurture things in a controlled environment so that we could maybe do it on the moon or in ours and stuff like that. So they started this study, and they had everything like they, the atmosphere was perfect. The soil was perfect. They brought in plants from all around the world, like the best seeds, everything. They planted it here, and everything started to grow like they had a natural water filtration system, everything was going, but early on in the study, they started finding that the trees, although they would grow faster than what they had seen, like in an outside study, like not in a controlled environment, the trees would grow to full maturity quicker than they would outside of a biodome or controlled atmosphere, but they actually like toppled over and died faster as well, and they couldn’t figure it out.
So they kept like changing this the soil. They kept changing the water. They were trying to make sure it had direct sunlight, and they couldn’t figure it out, like they couldn’t figure it out. And finally one of the scientists realized that they were missing one element, and it was wind. And so they realized that when wind hits a tree or most plants, what it does is like on trees, it creates something called stress woods. So it makes the bark tougher, but it actually causes the tree to grow deeper roots so that when it goes through harder winds are harder storms, it doesn’t get knocked over, the roots have been grown deep. And so wind was essential in making sure that plants and trees had a good life and grew stronger and bigger. And so what I think we’ve semi-done and church world sometimes is like, especially with a big corporation, is we build our own biodomes. And so, we make everything like we have everything you need. We have everything you could want. We have everything perfectly lined up.
Tyler Bates 9:21
And, and then what happens though, is we don’t set families or kids up for like when real life happens. Like when real life happens, I may not be able because I have 1,000 kids in my ministry, I don’t know if I’m able to, like be there for you as your pastor. But also, did I equip you for this wind? Because Jesus told us in this world, we were gonna have troubles and tribulations and trials, but to take heart because He’s overcome the world. And so, in a small church environment, I think there’s an ability to prepare kids. It could be easier. I’m not saying it’s always easier. I’m not saying that bigger churches can’t do it, but in a small church environment, I think there’s an ability to walk with kids in life, and to help them when wind hits and rain hits, it doesn’t topple them over. But it helps them grow their roots down deeper. So that later on in life when the storms come the way the rain doesn’t wash them away, it just like waters, the seed that’s been planted in their heart and their roots grow deeper and like they grow closer towards Jesus. So that’s why I love like smaller churches, because there’s a there’s a ripe opportunity to do that with kids.
Laurie Graham 10:25
Yeah, I love that so much. So when you’re talking about like kids ministry and stuff, so many times we think of the struggles we have as like interruptions, or like distractions to, to our curriculum or to our message, and really, when things go wrong, like even in ministry, when we end up with one kid when we thought we were planning for five, or you know, these mixed age distractions, or when we have somebody in our room with a differing ability, right? Like, we think this is an interruption to the curriculum, but all these struggles, even as ministers, not even as children, but even as ministers, like, that’s the wind that’s growing us stronger. And I think when we embrace that, I love that. And by the way, if you ever want to visit the Biosphere Two, it’s like, half an hour from me.
Tyler Bates 11:06
No way!
Laurie Graham 11:07
Yeah! You can go there, you can visit the Biosphere too.
Tyler Bates 11:09
That’s amazing.
Laurie Graham 11:11
Down here in Oracle, Arizona, so I’m in Tuscon, so it’s very fun. You know, I want to mention one other thing. So Sam Lewis is a real person, you know, Sam Lewis?
Tyler Bates 11:20
Yeah, yeah.
Laurie Graham 11:21
So I quoted him at our very first Kidmin conference, because I love, he talked about our churches need to be more like Mr. Rogers and less like Disney, more like that relational, you know, that relational come into my living room instead of all this entertainment. And so I have quoted him and I always wondered, is he real person? So how fun that you’re friends?
Tyler Bates 11:42
Yeah! Yeah, he’s great. He came in town a couple months ago, actually, we did this free resource for kids pastors, and he did a keynote for it. And like talked about the priorities of being a kids pastor, like shepherding kids. He’s one of my favorite voices on all that.
Laurie Graham 11:57
So let me ask you a question, because I know you’re not only a kids minister, but, but you, you relate to other people who work in different sized churches, and you’ve been around them, there’s something that happens, and I’m just curious how you would maybe encourage someone or help do a mind shift like, we do feel a little less when we have less kids, like, we’re not being as successful, because if we did it, right, we’d get more kids, or this would grow, or those families would stay. And I definitely have a lot of pushback for that because I really believe God is working in every situation, in every person, and like, you know, that we would have the audacity to think that God’s not in our midst, you know, with one or with zero sometimes. Like, if no one shows up, God is still working, you know, but how would you, how would you encourage somebody who’s a Sunday school teacher, maybe not a paid children’s director, but a Sunday school teacher who’s pouring their, their time and effort, and maybe they’re not getting the response they wish they had?
Tyler Bates 11:57
We get, we get teased a lot, I think with the a lot of people say it, so I don’t think I get attribute it to one person, but you know, healthy things grow. And we usually and that’s not untrue. That’s I mean, that is just a principle like, absolutely, but I think we a lot of the time just attribute that to bodies or numbers in a room. And the reality is, is like, God grows good things, and so growth isn’t just in like, like numbers or like in capacity. It’s also like, deep like I, so I see our opportunity. So if you’re a kids pastor that’s pouring into the life of, or a kids minister, or a part time or a volunteer, we can get disheartened at times, because it feels like it should be growing. If this was, quote unquote, successful, why isn’t this growing? And you think through like, so kids would be inviting their friends if this was good. And the reality is, is it’s God’s job to bring people in. It’s not ours, like the Holy Spirit is the one who draws, the Holy Spirit is the one who brings people in. And our job is to steward. So we’re going to steward what God’s put in front of us, whether it’s one or 100, we steward it well.
And it’s easy for us to get caught up in like, well, if it was going well, we would see growth in our numbers. But the reality is, you might not be seeing growth in your numbers, but are you seeing growth in the children that you’re speaking into? Do they look more like Jesus this week than they did last week? Is there, are you are you shaping them and molding them in their Christ-ilkeness? And do they look more like Jesus, as you’re having simple conversations with them, that doesn’t mean that you’re, you know, walking through systematic theology with them every week, but it means that you’re able to help them see who Jesus is, and try to follow and model their lives and allow them to let the Holy Spirit like, shape them and mold them into the image of Jesus.
Laurie Graham 14:54
Yeah.
Tyler Bates 14:55
And so I think that that’s the most beautiful thing whether we have 1,000 kids are we have one kid, like we get to steward whatever it is. And I have seen, like when we steward whatever God puts in our hands, he rewards it, and He blesses it better than what we could have ever imagined it would be.
Laurie Graham 15:12
Yeah, yeah. And you know, the reality is some kid, as well as adults, would not thrive in a huge environment, or in a busy environment, or, you know, we have no idea, I think a lot of growth happens that we do not see. Like, if you think about these huge trees, right, the ones that grow quickly, are not often the strongest. And even we don’t see that the micro growth that’s happening, and providing a safe place, for one could be changing the world. Providing a safe, loving place for three kids could truly change not just their world, but the world. Because we all have so much influence beyond our little centers, right, this ripple effect. And I really do, I just love what you’re saying, because the Kingdom impact, influence, and responsibility that we have, with one, with two, with the person we meet, walking down the street, like that kingdom impact that we have, that responsibility is so huge. And so yeah, whatever we’re doing in our churches, whoever is coming in, so important.
Okay. I told you, Tyler, before we get on that we had to get practical, just really like, you know, these strategic solutions, because our audience, we like, hey, what can we do different? What can we do different? And you and I are just having a huge conversation, which to me is like, such at the heart of children’s ministry. But, because I promised everybody that we’d have some practical tips and solutions here, what do you see as some of the biggest challenges, like in the smaller church environment, you know, with mixed ages, and you know, not knowing what our numbers are? Where do you see, people, kind of, get off maybe from what they could be focusing on for greater impact?
Tyler Bates 16:57
For me, so I’ll say when I went, especially when, again, we, my wife, and I, we were a part of, like, kids pastoring at a smaller church.
Laurie Graham 17:05
Yeah.
Tyler Bates 17:06
You wear all the hats. So, and a lot of the time, where that falls into place is like, if you look at your week, from like, weekend to next weekend, like it’s you, there’s like a task list in your brain, but like, and everything gets prioritized, and so it’s hard to figure out, like, where are my priorities in this and I find that a lot of the times people, they want to follow up with families, and they want to take that volunteer or, like, you know, follow up with like a worker or congregation member to coffee. Like they want to do all that, but it’s like, I have to curate all of the crafts for the nursery and I have to, like, load up these videos or lesson supplies and get like, make sure scripts go out or make sure like, you know, there’s like 1,000 things we do and like trying to reorient like what are our priorities, and how do we like, decide what works best is really hard. And I think sometimes the trap I see some, like smaller church people I fell in it, too, is that we put like a lot of our focus on the programming side of our ministry.
Laurie Graham 18:11
Yeah.
Tyler Bates 18:12
So, because that’s the part that parents come in, when they drop their kids off, that’s what they see, and so we have a hard time not letting that be the main focus. When in reality, it’s probably a third of what our job should be. That doesn’t mean that it makes it, what I’m saying does not make it any easier, like you want it to be a good experience for kids, but I have found when my, my greatest weeks were when I felt like I had time to make birthday calls. So I would call kids like that’s like the biggest win with families when like you just have a list of kids when it’s their birthday, and you call them and sing Happy Birthday. And if you don’t get their, like they’re at school or they’re not home, then I would we would record a video. Like we just record a video on our phone and send it to their parents, be like Malikai it’s your birthday! Happy Birthday, and like sing along and dance. And that was super fun. Sending postcards to them, like, just like, we would have little postcards to follow up just saying we’re so glad you were here this weekend, like can’t believe, like we get to hang out with you.
And then also, I’m going to the schools like that was the biggest, not going to schools to try and get kids to come to our ministry but like knowing the schools that our kids were in, we would just go have lunch with them. And like that was so and like to watch the kids face light up when they got to show their friends that their pastor like their kids pastor or the person that hangs out with them on the weekend is here having lunch with them, they felt so cool and so awesome. And so, I think that’s the tension we see sometimes is, as shepherds of these kids, shepherds do have to make sure that the sheep are eating good things, like we don’t want them eating things that are going to harm them. But a shepherds job isn’t just fully making sure that, like if, they don’t get to spend all week preparing one meal for their sheep to eat.
Tyler Bates 19:56
They have to keep them moving. They have to keep them grazing they have to keep them out of harm. They have to go find them and get them out of ditches. And so I think for us in small churches, we have to be careful not just to make it all about like, well, I’m gonna like plant this grass, and I’m going to make sure I’m mowing it well, and the sheep are gonna love this food. It’s like, that’s great. You have to make sure that you’re building a firm foundation. But it’s like a third, you know, and so we have to make sure that we’re constantly and consistent in those kids lives because you may be Jesus to them. Like their first encounter with Jesus may be actually Mr. Tyler, or Miss Laurie, and like the way that you love them and care for them and check in on them and disciple them, is how they’re going to see Jesus for their early formative years of life.
Laurie Graham 20:39
So you are a trained children’s person, you are trained children’s minister. You know, you’ve done this in big churches, midsize churches, little churches, and we have so many small churches in our community where it’s literally a 65 year old grandma, who was recruited to teach Sunday school, or we’ve got, you know, a busy dad who has a full time job and somebody said, Hey, we need you to teach Sunday school. And I think this is where sometimes in small churches, we’re kind of missing it. Because we’re asking people to teach Sunday school, but without any training, I’m telling you right now, some people are like, wait, I’m supposed to make a birthday call. Like that was never on my agenda. That was never even a thought, like that could change some kid’s life? And so like mind blowing, when we’re just asking people to please come teach Sunday school, or, you know, busy pastor says, oh, my gosh, we need a kid’s program, can you just do this? But I think it’s so important to remember, this is part of pastoring. This is part of relational ministry, and in small churches, what a cool opportunity, because you’ve only got three kids, you can call, make three birthday calls. Oh my gosh.
Tyler Bates 21:40
You can go to a lunch once a week, like, you know what I mean?
Laurie Graham 21:45
Well, three times a year is all it would be even if you did it once, you know. And so, I think for busy people listening to understand, this isn’t more things, this isn’t overwhelming. This is more important.
Tyler Bates 21:57
Yes. Yeah.
Laurie Graham 21:59
And Tyler, the other day, when you and I talked, to you mentioned this curriculum that you’re creating with your wife, and, you know, that you poured into, and I think it’s changed a little bit along the way, and how you’re delivering it and all that, but you mentioned that your desire is to do this, so that people in small churches can spend more time pastoring. Do you remember that you said that to me?
Tyler Bates 22:18
Yeah. Yeah.
Laurie Graham 22:19
Talk about that a little bit.
Tyler Bates 22:19
Yeah, during 2020 we saw a lot of churches, as everyone did, get forced, they were forced online, and everyone had to create these experiences.
Laurie Graham 22:34
Or try to.
Tyler Bates 22:35
Or try too, yeah, and then coming out of 2020, like into 2021, we started meeting again, and everyone started coming back together, I was a little disheartened by how a lot of kids pastors and it’s not necessarily on them, it could have been their, their senior pastor was like, hey, this is great, like, keep this going, but they stayed in kind of the content creator mode, like everybody had all of a sudden be content experts and content creators. And, and so, when we came back into it, we didn’t get a lot of kids pastors coming back. We just had like content people and like they dabbled or like their hobby was pastoring.
Laurie Graham 23:07
And so by this, just because you’re using terminology that some people might not use them their normal everyday, like the content creator, by this, what I’m picturing is, we kind of went into this mode of giving them content, giving them the lesson, but we, we removed ourselves relationally because COVID kind of forced that. And now that we’re coming back, we’re still focused on the content and we kind of have lost that. Is that kind of what you’re saying?
Tyler Bates 23:33
Yeah. We kind of just lost, yeah, that’s, we lost our priority of like, let’s pastor, the kids. And so, our heart and all of this as we started to build our kids curriculum was called Amazing Kids, and it stemmed from, one we just really love, like, I love building curriculum that teaches kids, not just who God is, but His character, and then it builds a framework, like we, I was talking with a friend the other day about building a framework that they can grow into, not out of. And so, it’s it’s.
Laurie Graham 24:08
Ooh I love that! Say that, again.
Tyler Bates 24:10
It’s, it’s building a faith framework that they grow into and not out of, and there’s a, there’s a difference between distilling something and dumbing it down. And so, a lot of times with kids ministry, it’s like, well, we just have to kind of dumb down this big theological concept. And we don’t mean that in a degrading way. That’s just how we approach it. Whereas distilling is actually taking something and, and distilling it down to its purest form. And for kids, we have to do that, make it bite size, but not let it lose its potency. It doesn’t lose its, like all of its power in it. And so I love doing that. And when we were part of pastoring at a smaller church, there were so much and like putting on a program every week and it was like sorting through content and curriculum and what’s best out there and how do I, and then how do I make it happen in a room but also be out at check in for families and then also making sure that my volunteers are good and like or like I have kindergarten through sixth grade or fifth grade and all in one room. And like, how does this work?
And so, in that we built something that is, our heart is like, let us do the content so that you can connect, you can connect with your families and your kids, and it’s not meant to be just like a push, play and like, let a video go, but what the reality is, is, I promise that we can minister to your kids, I promise every week there’s there’s moments where we look at how God is interacting with us, and what is the Holy Spirit leading us into truth wise, and then trying to free pastors up to be able to pastor again, and we have free resources and like, like you guys have great resources, too, about let the program happen. Like if we could program so that you can pastor I always say we’re not a plug and play. We’re a plug in pastor.
Tyler Bates 25:51
So like, it’s delivered through an Apple TV app. So, you like, we, we’ll send you an Apple TV, and you can subscribe, and every week it refreshes. And then we have a phone app that coincides. So it’s that’s free for parents, and they don’t have to put their email in or we’re not trying to capture anybody’s emails or whatnot. And every week it updates so parents can also see what their kids have been learning. So it’s like their conversation cards, Bible stories, the memory verse, and that refreshes every week. So parents can be involved in their kids spiritual formation. And we can give kids pastors time and their week back to connect with families and connect with kids and connect with volunteers and connect with themselves and feel like they have a breath to be filled up so that their ministry is coming from overflow.
Laurie Graham 26:39
Okay, so my friends in small churches, they just went to cha ching, cha ching, cha ching, and you just lost them at Apple TV. So how do they, tell us more. Like how does a church who has no money afford an Apple TV and this fancy curriculum that they’re not even sure what to do with?
Tyler Bates 26:56
Call me, because our heart is to make sure that that’s never a roadblock. The, that would never be a roadblock. One, we would send you one, and then we have a really great integration process, like videos that explain how to utilize and use it. So it’s not just like here, buy it, and figure it out. Like we will walk you through the implementation of it. And especially when it comes to the purchase price, especially for people part of the Small Church Ministry Network, I am more than willing to negotiate a price that works for you, like and when I say negotiate, I mean, like, just give me a call and I promise we’ll probably find something that works.
Laurie Graham 27:36
You all, we connect with the most amazing people here at Small Church Ministry. I’m just telling you, like, we just had a conference for a pastor spouses and we had all these giveaways, Tyler, we had gave away over $14,000 worth of like, rest stays, three nights, four nights, a whole week, like at this amazing place in South Dakota. And like, I think people in small churches, like we forget that there’s people out there rooting for it, like.
Tyler Bates 28:01
Yeah.
Laurie Graham 28:01
You know, like I’m, they’re trying to support us, they’re given us all they can and sometimes we just need to say okay, okay, let’s see what we can do with this. Instead of going, oh, I can’t do that either, right? Like I think sometimes we get in a place, and I love your message, Tyler, I love your heart, and I just think it’s just so like Jesus to be able to focus on who we’re with. Like, you talked about 150 friends or relationships early on, and when we talk about that, like for you all working in children’s ministry or in small churches in any area, you know, Jesus, I know Jesus had a lot of followers, he had more than 12, right? So when you really look at where He poured His time, and then even down to the three, like, this is like, this is, I think it’s the Peter Scazzero who talks about God-given limitations. Like, we have God-given limitations. God did not create us as humans, to have deep relationships with 400 people or even 100 children, because you have to throw in your family and adults, right. So if we could have deep, life changing relationships with 3 or 12, I’m telling you, I just think that’s so where Jesus would be at.
Tyler Bates 29:10
Yep, I agree. I’m with you.
Laurie Graham 29:13
Yeah. So how do they find Amazing Kids? Like, how can we look you up? I mean, I looked you up and I’m like, follow you on Instagram, and I’m on your YouTube channel, and but I think some of that’s even a little maybe older, that you’re not still doing in the same way anymore. Is that right?
Tyler Bates 29:26
Yeah. Yeah, that was all from our, when we were pastoring at the church in Austin. We’re getting ready to, we haven’t officially, even officially launched yet. So, like everyone here is actually probably hearing more than anyone else in the world has heard, but if you go to, like it’s, it’s amazing.kids. So instead of .com, it’s just .kids. So if you type in the word amazing.kids into your web browser, our website is there. And you can get in contact with us through that. And I mean, I would say, again, because, my wife and I, we love, love, love, love the small church expression. And I don’t think it should feel like a diss to say small, like that, it’s awesome. Like, we own that, because we love it, like we’d be like willing to do. There’s like, I mean, I’m telling you, I would go 75% off for anybody that’s in this like Small Church Network, it’s basically just be covering the overhead fee of the like, putting it on an Apple TV app. But besides that, like, find us reach out. I, like we, our heart isn’t to grow into something big. That’s, I would say for Amazing Kids. Like, we’re not trying to be this big, big, big thing. We’re just trying to make an impact with the people that God is already using around the world, and I think, like churches, especially small churches, have the greatest, greatest opportunity to do that.
Laurie Graham 30:49
Yeah, so sweet. Well, I am just so grateful for this conversation for meeting you. I’m so grateful that you reached out like it was just such a godsend, you know, just to have somebody who can speak into the hearts of small churches and into KidsMin. But they’re, they don’t even have to do that to find you because you’re going to be speaking at one of our conferences coming up!
Tyler Bates 31:08
Yep, I’m excited. Excited!
Laurie Graham 31:12
We are so excited. We have a Christmas conference coming up. It’s our so this is our 13th online conference since September, like for small churches, and we have the best time. It’s super interactive, and really fun, but this is the first year we’re actually, we’re doing our Christmas conference. It’s called A Small Church Christmas. And it’s all about less stress and more impact for congregations during the holidays because we miss so much impact on our communities. You know, we get so, just stressed out by everything going on in the world, we’re doing these programs that are, you know, adding more stress and fear for children even right, like when they do those programs.
And so we’re talking about innovative ideas, you know, way to reach your community in a way that’s ongoing, not a one and done thing. And so this conference is happening on September 23rd. It’s a Saturday. We’re trying to get the date out earlier because every conference people say later, I wish I had known, I wish I’d known ,and they’re like literally reach out to me with sad faces saying why didn’t I know? So September 23rd is the date. And Tyler is going to be there with us. Do you know what you’re speaking on yet? Because we haven’t really nailed it down.
Tyler Bates 32:15
I mean, I, Christmas is my favorite season. So I will speak on any and all things. But I think when it comes to churches, there’s a lot of really low-hanging fruit that we can utilize, that doesn’t add stress to our already very busy and full schedule. So I think I’m excited for everyone to come in. We can all hang out.
Laurie Graham 32:36
Yeah, I love it. I was even thinking about kids over Christmas, as we’ve been brainstorming different things to talk about and how much stress there is for parents over Christmas, but we don’t always think how much stress that is for kids. Like their whole schedule is is upheaved. Whether it’s, whether they’re like in school, normal or even homeschool, like, everything gets thrown out, the kids who have no money are going from school lunches to being at home. Like I mean, there’s just even gifts, my parents don’t have enough to give me that or I want that and we have tons of money, but my parents aren’t paying. Like I just think there’s a lot of stress around the holidays, don’t you?
Tyler Bates 33:09
It’s, it’s one of the most, for, I think, a lot of times, we focus on adults being stressed at Christmas, whereas for kids, it’s actually just as anxiety-ridden, can be just as anxiety-ridden and sad, if we’re not helping them focus on the things we should be focusing on.
Laurie Graham 33:24
Yeah, yeah. And let’s just say it. In small churches, we’re able to.
Tyler Bates 33:27
Yep!
Laurie Graham 33:27
In small churches, we are able to focus on the one, and the two, and the three, and the five, and even the 20, right? And just, just be in Jesus’ light where we are. So, okay, Tyler, is there anything that I didn’t ask you or that’s burning on your heart? Like, oh my gosh, I want to say that.
Tyler Bates 33:44
No, other than I am so thankful that you let, you like, I’m honored that you even let me come on and to anyone who’s watching. I am, I am, an awe, and I am so happy that you’re doing what you’re doing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It’s because of you that people like me exist because you took time and you’re taking time to invest in the Kingdom. And that is an investment that never ever, ever, ever runs dry. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Laurie Graham 34:12
Well, that’s very sweet. So we have to end you know, not focused on me because I just can’t end like that. So you had a little kid come up to you in the restaurant, right? And say you’re the guy who’s on TV. Can you tell that story?
Tyler Bates 34:23
It was, it was a sushi restaurant, and the church we were at, it was a bigger church and it had quite a few campuses. And so, because I was over the next gen content and was in the videos that would play at these campuses. They’re on screens and so we were sitting down, and a tiny child, sweet kid came up and was like, you’re the guy on TV, like so loud. And, and so, I was you know, like, oh, hey, what’s your name? My name is Mr. Tyler and like talking, and all these people around us, I can tell are trying to figure out like, is this guy famous? He doesn’t look famous. He looks like he’s 15 years old, like and so having to like, I, it’s, it’s just from our church like, I’m not really on TV, I promise. Like, he’s, he’s just saying that and so, but it was, it happens. It’s really funny when it does happen.
Laurie Graham 35:09
Isn’t that true though, that everybody is famous to somebody?
Tyler Bates 35:13
Everybody’s famous to somebody. Absolutely.
Laurie Graham 35:16
And in children’s ministry, I’m just telling you small churches, even that, that kid who comes every other week, or three times a year, or that teenager who walks in looking all rebellious, and like they they’d rather be anywhere else, if you’re that person who remembers a birthday or who reaches out or gives a smile when everybody else is scowling, like, like that’s how, that’s how we’re famous to one person. And so, I just love it. I love it so much.
Tyler Bates 35:41
I love it too.
Laurie Graham 35:41
Tyler, thank you so much for being with us. We are looking forward to knowing you more partnering more, letting people know more about your resources. I’d love for you to guest blog on the website so people can even get other, other KidMin tips for you, even from you, even beyond you know even beyond Amazing Kids because you have so much to offer, but we will definitely be looking back for the September 23rd conference A Small Church Christmas and hear from Tyler about making an impact with kids over the Christmas season in a new and fresh way. And thanks for being with us. So until next week, you all be a light.