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If you’re looking for the secret to better community outreach, don’t miss this episode.
Listen in to hear how one small church pastor led his church to become the place the community turns to for help.
From opening their church building for local high school events to providing memorial dinners for community members with no strings attached, this small church has become a hub of community care.
Our guest on the podcast today, Pastor Jeff Shouse from First Baptist Church in Ramsey, Illinois, shares the moment he realized he was the “Commmunity Pastor.”
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https://fbcramsey.org/
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Laurie Graham 00:01
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to the Small Church Ministry podcast
Laurie Graham 00:14
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast! We have a treat today on the show. We’re going to be talking with Pastor Jeff Shouse from First Baptist Church in Ramsey, Illinois. You’re going to love this man.
Laurie Graham 00:28
Now, I know most people listening are not pastors; our audience is so unique and so special. And I love it so much, because I really believe small churches are powered by volunteers. You know, some small churches, they’re able to have a small staff—maybe there’s a part-time children’s director, maybe there’s a worship leader. Sometimes there’s even like a second pastor. But really, small churches are powered so much by those volunteers who are serving day in and day out and working a full-time job, and, you know, raising families or whatever they’re about. But it is so awesome to just get to talk with and hear the heart of those pastors who are leading the charge. And we’ve got one very special pastor on the show today.
Laurie Graham 01:10
Pastor Jeff Shouse, as I mentioned, is a pastor out in Ramsey, Illinois. I actually got to speak at their church. Stephanie, his wife, is part of our community here with small churches on our Facebook community. And it’s just been so fun to connect. But I actually got to stay in his house, so I had to laugh. Like, we’re interviewing a pastor, and I’ve been in your home, I’ve been in your church, and it was such a delight. And so I’m so grateful you’re on the show. So welcome!
Jeffrey Shouse 01:37
Well, thank you. It’s great to be here.
Laurie Graham 01:38
Awesome.
Laurie Graham 01:38
Well, let’s just get started. Why don’t you tell them your journey to becoming a small church pastor?
Jeffrey Shouse 01:46
Alright, well, I grew up in a pastor’s family. My dad’s a pastor, my grandfather was a pastor. I’m the seventh generation in being a pastor. But that was never my plan. In fact, growing up in church, you always have people ask, ‘What are you going to do when you grow up? What are you going to do?’ And my answer was always the same: ‘Well, I don’t know, but I do know this, I will never be a pastor.’
Jeffrey Shouse 02:12
I just didn’t want anything to do with it because I’d seen the troubles and the heartaches and the struggles that my dad went through, that my grandfather went through. And I just didn’t want that kind of a life. Then, when I was in high school, I had my plan set out for me. I was going to become a physical therapist. I was a runner and looking to go into college on scholarship for that, already had a scholarship lined up. And then I had a knee injury which blew my knee out. All of a sudden, I can’t run, my whole life is just kind of falling apart.
Jeffrey Shouse 02:57
And I remember very vividly sitting in church one day, one night. We used to have revivals that lasted a week long, and we’d have a guest speaker come and preach for that week. And during that week, you know, I’m just a rambunctious, ADHD teenager who’s not listening to a thing anybody’s saying. And just in my boredom, I started flipping through the Bible, and all of a sudden, everything just kind of stopped. And I just read the words, ‘Preach the Word.’ And it was one of those times in which it’s hard to explain unless you’ve ever been through that. I just knew at that moment, God was speaking to me at that time. And my response was, ‘Okay, Lord, I’ll do that. But I will never be a pastor.’ And it was as if God said, ‘Okay, that’s fine. For now, just give what you can right now.’
Jeffrey Shouse 04:02
And throughout that time, in which growing up, going to college, meeting Stephanie, getting married, the Lord just kept kind of carving away at the hardness of my heart towards being a pastor. I love pastors, don’t get me wrong, but I just know the struggles that they go through and how hard it is. And He just kept kind of chopping away at that a little bit at a time.
Jeffrey Shouse 04:40
And it’s kind of funny. You know, I’ve been doing this since, oh my goodness, 1997. And it wasn’t until probably about 10 years ago that I finally completely said, ‘Okay, this is what I’m going to do the rest of my life.’ From the Bible, as a pastor of pastoring several churches, there were several times I would even look into other ministries that I could go into and be a part of those. But I’m at a point where I can’t really see myself doing anything else.
Laurie Graham 05:17
I know that you have a heart for smaller churches. That’s one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show and introduce you to the world, because it is so beautiful to see people who are, I don’t know, just embracing what God is doing in your place. Can you just talk a little bit about that small church, big church mentality? And what you see as the beauty and even the unique ministry opportunities there?
Jeffrey Shouse 05:43
Sure. I think you’d know the statistics better than I do, but it’s like 97-98% of all churches in the world really are small churches. And yet, there’s this inferiority complex that so many churches have. It’s like, “Well, what can we do? I mean, we’re just this little old church in this little old place.”
Jeffrey Shouse 06:11
But one of the things that we’re discovering now is we’re living in a world that is becoming more and more disconnected. Which is ironic, because we have social media, we have Skype, we have iPhones, we have so many Zoom conferences—so many ways to connect, and yet we feel more disconnected than ever before. Because, you know, just like this, we’re in two different parts of the country; this is an amazing thing that we can do here. But there’s something special about being face-to-face, there’s something special about occupying the same room together and getting to know each other’s names, to know each other’s heartache, to be able to help each other. And that’s a unique place that small churches do better than anybody else.
Jeffrey Shouse 07:09
People look at the events, they look at the big ministries, they look at all of that. And one of the things that we started discovering is that, look at what Jesus did. He started with 12, and he got to know those 12 so much better than anybody else. And then those 12 went out. And they didn’t go after the masses. I mean, we have the one time, the one deacon, Philip, he was getting too big of an audience, and God moved him out of there to go to one person.
Jeffrey Shouse 07:46
And so small churches provide a place where they are connected with ordinary people, because they are ordinary people. And they may not be big, they might not be fancy, they may not be polished. But I think there’s something beautiful in that. I think there’s something beautiful in the imperfections that we offer. Because it’s real, and it’s authentic. And we’re not doing it for the show. We’re doing it because, number one, we love God. And then secondly, we love each other because we need each other.
Laurie Graham 08:30
Yeah, have you always kind of embraced the smallness of a place? Or have you struggled, as many have, with, like, “Why is my church not growing?” or “Why do I not have a big following?” Did you ever struggle with that, or has that small church always had a place in your heart?
Jeffrey Shouse 08:46
I think everybody struggles with it. I think everybody goes through that. I mean, everybody wants to make a name for themselves. Nobody wants to live in obscurity. Nobody wants to be unknown or unseen. And there’s that draw of the lights and the glamour and the idea of, you know, “I can leave a legacy; I can make a name for myself.”
Jeffrey Shouse 09:12
And then I’ve had friends—one of the worst things that I kind of encountered, and so I stopped going to conferences—is because all the conferences, all the big speakers, all the main speakers, and all the breakout session speakers, for the most part (not all of them, but for the most part), are led by pastors who are pastoring churches of 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, and on and on and on. And they make you feel about an inch tall, because it’s almost as if there’s something wrong with me because I don’t have what you have. But the town that I live in is smaller than most of their churches, so I’m never going to have that. I just had to be okay with that.
Jeffrey Shouse 10:03
And so it’s through necessity, as well as through a change of perspective. The Lord really had to change my heart on saying bigger is not better. And as we have seen in the last 10 years, how many of these big-time church leaders have fallen? Yeah, a lot of that had to do with the fact that they pastored a big church and got a big name. And all the temptations come with that. And so, Stephanie and I talk about it all the time, we praise the Lord for protecting us from the big church. We thank God for protecting us from pastoring a large church.
Laurie Graham 10:46
Yeah, you know, when you mentioned, like, “no one wants to live in obscurity,” and “everyone wants to leave a legacy.” As I’m looking at you, and as I’ve gotten to know you and Stephanie, you are leaving a legacy. If you left the earth right now, how many people would be like, “Where’d my pastor go?” And it’s not the number, but it’s that depth because I saw that depth of relationship you all have. And I have to be honest, a bigger audience does not translate to a bigger legacy. That legacy, the life change, is so founded in deep, connected relationships. Can you talk to us a little bit about your revelation of being a community pastor? That was such a fun story I got to hear when I was having dinner with you and Stephanie, in your home. Do you remember the story you shared about that?
Jeffrey Shouse 11:37
Yeah. Stephanie and I were out one day, and I had this lady come up to me. She started asking me for, as I get very often, prayer requests or help, or—I can’t even remember what the exact conversation was. I’m trying to remember how everything went. It just came up. I introduced myself to her at the very beginning of that time and I said, “Well, I’m Jeff Shouse. I’m the pastor of the Baptist church down there.” And she goes, “Well, I know who you are. You’re my pastor.”
Jeffrey Shouse 12:18
looked at her, and I was thinking, “Really?” Because I’d never seen this woman before in my life. I had never seen her, ever. And she has never come to the church since I’ve been here. And I’ve been here for over nine years now. So it dawned on me that, you know, we live in a small town. We are the big church in town. We’re right around 100, a little bit over 100, in our worship services. But it dawned on me that she saw me as her pastor because she didn’t have any other church affiliation. She didn’t have any other church to go to. And so if she was going to come to church, she was going to come to our church, and if she was going to have a pastor, I was going to be him. And so she knew me, even though I didn’t know her.
Jeffrey Shouse 13:08
And that kind of flipped a switch for me. So, you know, the official title was Jeff Shouse, Pastor at First Baptist Church, Ramsey. The real title is Jeff Shouse, Pastor of Ramsey. And that flipped a switch into realizing, okay, the ministry that I have is not just here, but it’s beyond these walls. It’s in the streets, it’s in the schools, it’s in the grocery store. We’re in the gas station. And, you know, of course, there comes—it’s interesting, because I have a lot of friends who are pastors of large, large churches, and they have almost this freedom that they can go out, do whatever they want, nobody really knows who they are outside of just church. I go anywhere within a 50-mile radius of this place, people already know who I am. And that, I embrace that accountability. Because it reminds me that no matter where I am, what I’m doing, I have to represent Christ. And there is no time off for that. And there shouldn’t be. That’s how it should be.
Laurie Graham 14:29
Yeah, so I love the concept of a community pastor. Pastor Brian David Simms out in LA, he was on the podcast last year at some point, and he talked about how he saw himself as the community pastor. And when you said that to me, it just resonates so much with how I feel Christ would have walked around the planet, right? Like, “I’m their pastor, I’m their shepherd. I’m there.” And not just for the people who claim me as their shepherd, or claim me as their pastor. It’s about seeing that amount of care. And for you, Jeff, the love that you have for your community, not just the people who come to your church, but the people, as you mentioned, at the gas station down the street, your next-door neighbor, the person who’s, you know, out in the field farming—all those kinds of people. I just feel so much connection that you have with the people that you’re around.
Laurie Graham 15:27
How do you reach your community? How do you see yourself as the community pastor? What are some actions that you take, or that your church has opened its doors to? How do you actually connect with these people who don’t see themselves as part of your church?
Jeffrey Shouse 15:42
A lot of times, people are open during the most difficult times of their lives. And so one of the things that we do is, last year, I preached probably about 14 funerals, only for those who are members of our church. But every single one of them except for one, I think, the service was here at our church. We provided a meal, we provided grief counseling if they wanted it. And we were able to minister to them, because in the most difficult time that they’re going to experience this whole year, we’re right there with them. And they found comfort and peace and hope in this place through us. And to do something like that, it goes way beyond me. I mean, we have so many people involved. And they get to hear and see the love of the church, through the meals and through the music and through the sound and through people greeting them.
Jeffrey Shouse 16:54
And so our doors are always open. We have two different TOPS groups, which is a weight loss group; they meet here two different times a week. We don’t charge anything for that; we’d love to have them. The school meets in our building constantly. The basketball team—we have a gym. And so anytime that their schedule has conflicts for practice, they come over here, they practice in our gym. We are really striving to be the community center, where people know they can come here to be fed, they can come here and be cared for. They can get counseling here, they can get food here if they need it—whatever they need, this is the place.
Jeffrey Shouse 17:46
In fact, we had somebody call last week. And it was interesting because they called in the late evening—we get calls for benevolence and things like that. Well, she called; she said, “I need a plumber.” I said, “Okay.” And I said, “Well, we’re happy to take care of that for you. We need some more.” She said, “No, no, you don’t understand. I have the money, I’ll pay for it. I just can’t find anybody who would do it.” And so she didn’t know who else to call. The one place you call is the church! Well, we were able to give her a few numbers of people we knew, but it was just because we know who we have. You know, we have guys who come here and work on our plumbing. And we gave them their names because we have to pay for plumbing too. But it was just kind of funny because she had no—she didn’t know where else to go, even to find a name of a plumber. Yeah. And she thought, “Well, I know the church will help.”
Laurie Graham 18:51
So, okay, let me just ask you this. There are a lot of churches out there—churches of 100, churches of less than 100, churches in rural areas and suburban areas, wherever. And they don’t have the reputation that your church has. Like, there are churches who would say, “I would totally help if anybody would come to me, but nobody’s coming and nobody’s calling,” and things like that. What do you think has made the difference for your church? Have you even seen a transition in your time there? Like, have you always been the community church, or do you think there are things that you all have done to make yourselves available or known?
Jeffrey Shouse 19:24
We’ve been very intentional about making ourselves available. One of the big things that we did and that we are continuing to do is, we are in our school, all week, every week. We have members who are teachers there. At one time, every janitor in the building was a member of ours. So I have great relationships with both principals for the elementary school and the high school. Any time they need anything, they call me. Whether it’s taking school supplies or cosmetics or whatever the kids may need, we’re there.
Jeffrey Shouse 20:11
We do a program—in fact, we’re having one this Friday—called Lighthouse. What it is, is we invite all the community kids to come in, and they just play basketball. They play games; it’s just a fun time, and we feed them. We have a short service that they come and listen to. But we have 25-30 kids that aren’t members of our church, that aren’t regular attendees. And they’re coming on a Friday night here to be fed. And our people show up, and they get to know their names. We did an after-school program for a little while. So we were intentional about getting into some place.
Jeffrey Shouse 20:55
Here in Ramsey, our school is really the center of our community, as it is in like communities. And so what we did was we said, “Okay, how can we partner with you in order to help you do what you’re doing?” And I think we had to fight a lot of suspicion and a lot of cynicism. We had to take some hits on some things and say, “Listen, we’re not here to make a name for ourselves. We’re not here to try to get you to come to our church. We really are here just to help you help these kids.” And it took a good three, four years of faithful, consistent showing up.
Jeffrey Shouse 21:43
We feed our teachers. At the beginning of each school year, on Teacher Appreciation Week, we make sure there’s something in their lounge—snacks or something that they can have. And the only message is, “We love you. We love you.” It’s not, “Come to church,” it’s not, “These are our times, these are our services.” They know who we are; they can look up what time our service is. We just simply want to say, “We love you.” And now over the last four or five years, if there’s a crisis, we’re the ones they call. We’ve actually been invited in, instead of trying to get a foot in, they’re inviting, and we’re the first ones they call. So it’s been a long, slow transition. But one of the things I tell people all the time is, “God is not in a hurry. He grows faith.” And so we have to be faithful, even if we never get credit for it.
Laurie Graham 22:50
Yeah, it’s so refreshing to hear you even just say, “You know, we want to serve you, we want to help you do what you’re doing. We want to partner with you.” Because so many times in small churches, there’s like a desperation of, “We’ve got to get people in the church! We’ve got to get people in the church!” And this isn’t successful unless those people end up coming to our church. And I haven’t heard you say that once.
Jeffrey Shouse 23:16
Jesus said, “If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto myself.” And it is our responsibility, number one, to love people. Then we have to earn the right to share the gospel with them. And even then, we have to wait for the right opportunity. You know, we’ve tried the whole confrontational evangelism thing that’s been promoted. And for the most part, I mean, there are exceptions to everything, but what we’re finding is the relationship model that we saw Jesus do, the relationship model that we’re finding out here, it just works. And we have to wait for the right time for the Gospel, but when that opportunity comes, we have to see it and seize it. And that’s the other key to that. Yeah.
Laurie Graham 24:13
The relationship model. I heard you say that, and how would you define that for people who might be like, “What’s the relationship model?” and they’re looking for a strategy?
Jeffrey Shouse 24:23
Oh, it’s not a strategy. It’s just loving people. It’s loving people for where they are. And it’s funny, because almost everybody knows who I am. There are some people who don’t know who I am, and that’s just fine. I’ll go work out at the gym, and every once in a while, I’ll come into the gym and they’ll have no clue who I am. So I’ll just start talking with them, and we’ll just build—you know, just get to know each other.
Jeffrey Shouse 24:56
There was one guy specifically, we just kind of ended up at the gym at the same time, working out together for almost a month straight. We’re talking about two or three times a week, where that same time. So it just kind of became a joke at first, and then we just really got to know each other. For the summer, he just knew me as Jeff. That’s all.
Jeffrey Shouse 25:19
And the owner of the gym is a friend of mine. He comes to church; he’s a great guy. So this other guy that I was talking to had talked to him, and somehow it came up in the conversation that he had said, “There’s just one guy who comes in at the same time that I do.” And Danny, the owner of the gym, knows that’s when I go and work out. He said, “Oh, you’re talking about the pastor at the church.” He was like, “What?!”
Jeffrey Shouse 25:52
The first time we were back in there together, it was so stinking awkward because he just—before, he was just, you know, he spoke out some words, he was just a regular guy. And so now he’s trying to be super careful in what he’s saying. And I can tell he’s almost apologetic. And I was like, “Listen, what has changed from last week to this week? Nothing. You just know what I do for a living. You just know who I am.” I said, “I didn’t judge you before, and I won’t judge you now.”
Jeffrey Shouse 26:34
And now, over the course of time, I’ve been able to share Christ with him, a little bit at a time. And I can tell when he starts to tune me out. And sometimes we have to give people time to process the Gospel, for sure. So coming at it in bits is more effective. Now, if I had just come in that first time and said, “Hey, I’m the pastor down at the church, and let me tell you about Jesus,” he would have told me—he would have never showed up again when I was there. We still, you know, of course, I haven’t been in several months now because of my ankle injury surgery. But I know that when I go back, and if I go back at the same time, if he’s there, we’ll just pick right up where we left off.
Laurie Graham 27:23
Love it! I love it. It’s been so fun hearing a little more of your story and just the amount of influence that your church has in the community. And I just love that people are saying, “He’s my pastor,” even if they’ve never been in your church
Laurie Graham 27:36
Before we go, can we talk just a little bit about volunteers? Because a lot of volunteers in churches think, “Oh, that’s the pastor’s job,” or “I don’t want to overstep,” or, “You know, I’m just a volunteer.” That phrase, “I’m just a volunteer”—what do you think of volunteers?
Jeffrey Shouse 27:54
Oh, there’s no way we could do a tenth of what we do here without our volunteers. And I believe—I don’t even like that term “volunteer.” They are just as much a minister of the church as I am.
Jeffrey Shouse 28:12
Now, we have changed the way we’ve gone about it. One of the things that we’ve done is we’ve identified what people’s interests are. Once again, relationship model! We have to get to know people. What do people like to do? What do people enjoy doing? We’ve tailored our ministries around that, instead of what some convention or some book says, “This is what you should be doing.”
Jeffrey Shouse 28:41
I really believe that God has given us everything we need to be effective today. And that includes: we have everybody we need now to be effective. We don’t need more people; we need to use the people we have. And a lot of that has to do with finding out who they are.
Jeffrey Shouse 29:00
So we instituted a rule: when somebody joins our church, for one year, they can’t lead anything. They’re not allowed to lead anything. Because we want them to get involved in the ministries we already have. And we want time to get to know them. And we want them to have time to get to know who we are.
Jeffrey Shouse 29:21
After that year is up, and they’ve been involved and faithful in things, we’ll come to them and say, “Hey, we see this in you. What do you think about being a part of this?” Or, “What do you think about doing this for us?” The whole idea of just saying, “Hey, we need somebody to do this”—90% of the time, nobody wants to get up and say, “I’ll do that.” But when you go to somebody individually, it makes them feel special because it makes them feel seen. “You know me, you know that I would have enjoyed doing that. You know that that’s a passion of mine. That’s something I enjoy doing already.”
Jeffrey Shouse 30:02
So, there are still a few people who will turn us down. But for the most part, honestly, out of the 100—this past Sunday, we had 125 in our worship service—I could look out in the congregation, I know at least 80 of them are involved in one ministry of some kind.
Laurie Graham 30:22
Well, it’s so true. When people say, “Oh, people are too busy to serve,” or “They don’t want to serve,” or “They’re not committed,” I have never found that to be true. I think people love to be involved in things that bring them joy and things that bring them significance. Like you said, nobody wants to be unknown or unseen or not have a legacy. We all want that. And when we can tap into that in our churches, and just see who God has brought, and what He’s designed for your specific church, it’s quite amazing. And it’s very creative. Have you seen anything happen in your church that you maybe weren’t anticipating or weren’t part of your master vision, but somebody came along and you’re like, “Wow, look what’s happening here”?
Jeffrey Shouse 30:42
Well, it’s so true. When people say, “Oh, people are too busy to serve,” or “They don’t want to serve,” or “They’re not committed,” I have never found that to be true. I think people love to be involved in things that bring them joy and things that bring them significance. Like you said, nobody wants to be unknown or unseen or not have a legacy. We all want that. And when we can tap into that in our churches, and just see who God has brought, and what He’s designed for your specific church, it’s quite amazing. And it’s very creative. Have you seen anything happen in your church that you maybe weren’t anticipating or weren’t part of your master vision, but somebody came along and you’re like, “Wow, look what’s happening here”? Unexpected Ministries Yeah, we’ve got a couple of things. One, we have a meal train that we have, which sounds kind of weird, but here’s how it works: We have one lady in the church who’s very technologically savvy, and also an incredible cook. Anytime we have somebody who’s having surgery, or has had a death in the family, or is sick—during COVID, I mean, that thing was running constantly. We’ve got a list of 20 women, maybe a few men too, who are on her database. She has set up a calendar and assigned people, and they go in and say, “We’ll make this meal at this time.” And then that’s all they do. They make the meal, they go to the person’s house, they bring it, they pray with them, and they leave. When I had my surgery, we had people show up every day for that first week. I didn’t expect that. I didn’t ask for that. And yet, here they are. They saw the need, and so they came in and helped us out. And it was amazing.
Laurie Graham 32:18
That’s a ministry that’s run by a volunteer?
Jeffrey Shouse 32:22
Yes. Yes.
Laurie Graham 32:24
I love it. I love watching ministry grow organically out of people’s gifts and their passions and all of that. It’s really beautiful to see.
Jeffrey Shouse 32:32
Yeah, honestly, I don’t even know. I’m sure they’re feeding somebody right now, but I have no idea who it is or perhaps even taking meals. So I don’t need to know. I check in with them every once in a while. I ask, “What can I do for it?” “No, it’s going good.” “Okay. Move on.”
Laurie Graham 32:54
It is so great to be connected with you, Jeff, and just to, I don’t know, just to know that you’re representing Christ so well in this community. And I love thinking of small churches as like little satellites all over the planet. Before we run out of time, what do you want to say to pastors, to volunteers, to small churches? What’s left on your heart that you want to share?
Jeffrey Shouse 33:18
I think the biggest thing, or if I just had one thing to encourage pastors of small churches and in small churches, is I’ve already said it, but God has given you everything you already need. Stop looking at what you wish it could be. Stop looking at what you want it to be. And start seeing it for what it is, and the potential that is there. Because God has given you all the talents, and use the talents He’s given you. You have a wealth of ministry sitting within those pews, sitting within those chairs. You have wisdom there, of these guys who have been through battles. And so they know what’s going to work and what’s not going to work, and use them. Don’t fight against them; use them, and get to be a family. And then you’ll see God really—I really believe you’ll see God work. It’ll take time. He’s not in a hurry. He grows slowly. So be patient.
Laurie Graham 34:34
I love it. Thank you for sharing your story with us, Jeff. I think one of the things that we need to do more in small churches is get connected to people who are loving their ministry and seeing God work, because, as you mentioned earlier, when you used to go to ministry conferences, they’re usually filled with people in big churches, and it makes us feel so small and minimized and maybe not as important. But when we get around other people from smaller places who are excited, who are watching God move, who are making an impact in their community, it gives us a different kind of hope and a different kind of passion and a different kind of momentum. Like, “Oh, this can be happening in our church where we are.” Because there’s nothing special—well, there is something special, but there’s nothing different that’s special about the people in Ramsey than about the people in Elgin, or the people in, you know, Aurora, or the people in Tucson. Like, everyone has their special uniqueness. God brought us together in our places where we are. And I just feel like if we could tap into that, and I do really believe that sharing stories and hearing from pastors like yourself is one of the biggest things that happens in our community, in our Small Church Network, in Small Church Academy, and in our free Facebook community. Because instead of going to conferences and seeing all these big churches, we could never do the same types of things. We come to conferences and hear from people like you, in small churches. We listen to podcasts from people in smaller churches who are literally experiencing God at work right where they’re at.
Jeffrey Shouse 36:12
It’s funny, because these conferences, we decided, you know what, we need to do something for the small churches. And so we have three conferences a year. And we have a women’s conference, we have a worship conference, and then we have a youth conference. And it’s all small churches, and they’re all growing and growing and growing.
Laurie Graham 36:37
I really believe it’s God’s—it’s God using it all around the planet, using small churches everywhere. We just have to, we have to join Him. We have to see what He’s doing, and we just have to join Him instead of wishing for something we don’t have. So such a joy to have you on the podcast, Jeff. Thank you so much. I hope I get to have dinner with you in person again sometime as well.
Laurie Graham 36:57
And for everybody who’s listening, if you are not part of the Small Church Network and Academy yet, come join us! If you’re not part of our free Facebook group yet, come join us! We will post some links below. Come find us wherever you’re at for the encouragement, support, and training that you need. We are here for you. So anyway, everybody, we’ll talk to you next week. Until then, be a light.
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to the Small Church Ministry podcast
Laurie Graham 00:14
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast! We have a treat today on the show. We’re going to be talking with Pastor Jeff Shouse from First Baptist Church in Ramsey, Illinois. You’re going to love this man.
Laurie Graham 00:28
Now, I know most people listening are not pastors; our audience is so unique and so special. And I love it so much, because I really believe small churches are powered by volunteers. You know, some small churches, they’re able to have a small staff—maybe there’s a part-time children’s director, maybe there’s a worship leader. Sometimes there’s even like a second pastor. But really, small churches are powered so much by those volunteers who are serving day in and day out and working a full-time job, and, you know, raising families or whatever they’re about. But it is so awesome to just get to talk with and hear the heart of those pastors who are leading the charge. And we’ve got one very special pastor on the show today.
Laurie Graham 01:10
Pastor Jeff Shouse, as I mentioned, is a pastor out in Ramsey, Illinois. I actually got to speak at their church. Stephanie, his wife, is part of our community here with small churches on our Facebook community. And it’s just been so fun to connect. But I actually got to stay in his house, so I had to laugh. Like, we’re interviewing a pastor, and I’ve been in your home, I’ve been in your church, and it was such a delight. And so I’m so grateful you’re on the show. So welcome!
Jeffrey Shouse 01:37
Well, thank you. It’s great to be here.
Laurie Graham 01:38
Awesome.
Laurie Graham 01:38
Well, let’s just get started. Why don’t you tell them your journey to becoming a small church pastor?
Jeffrey Shouse 01:46
Alright, well, I grew up in a pastor’s family. My dad’s a pastor, my grandfather was a pastor. I’m the seventh generation in being a pastor. But that was never my plan. In fact, growing up in church, you always have people ask, ‘What are you going to do when you grow up? What are you going to do?’ And my answer was always the same: ‘Well, I don’t know, but I do know this, I will never be a pastor.’
Jeffrey Shouse 02:12
I just didn’t want anything to do with it because I’d seen the troubles and the heartaches and the struggles that my dad went through, that my grandfather went through. And I just didn’t want that kind of a life. Then, when I was in high school, I had my plan set out for me. I was going to become a physical therapist. I was a runner and looking to go into college on scholarship for that, already had a scholarship lined up. And then I had a knee injury which blew my knee out. All of a sudden, I can’t run, my whole life is just kind of falling apart.
Jeffrey Shouse 02:57
And I remember very vividly sitting in church one day, one night. We used to have revivals that lasted a week long, and we’d have a guest speaker come and preach for that week. And during that week, you know, I’m just a rambunctious, ADHD teenager who’s not listening to a thing anybody’s saying. And just in my boredom, I started flipping through the Bible, and all of a sudden, everything just kind of stopped. And I just read the words, ‘Preach the Word.’ And it was one of those times in which it’s hard to explain unless you’ve ever been through that. I just knew at that moment, God was speaking to me at that time. And my response was, ‘Okay, Lord, I’ll do that. But I will never be a pastor.’ And it was as if God said, ‘Okay, that’s fine. For now, just give what you can right now.’
Jeffrey Shouse 04:02
And throughout that time, in which growing up, going to college, meeting Stephanie, getting married, the Lord just kept kind of carving away at the hardness of my heart towards being a pastor. I love pastors, don’t get me wrong, but I just know the struggles that they go through and how hard it is. And He just kept kind of chopping away at that a little bit at a time.
Jeffrey Shouse 04:40
And it’s kind of funny. You know, I’ve been doing this since, oh my goodness, 1997. And it wasn’t until probably about 10 years ago that I finally completely said, ‘Okay, this is what I’m going to do the rest of my life.’ From the Bible, as a pastor of pastoring several churches, there were several times I would even look into other ministries that I could go into and be a part of those. But I’m at a point where I can’t really see myself doing anything else.
Laurie Graham 05:17
I know that you have a heart for smaller churches. That’s one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show and introduce you to the world, because it is so beautiful to see people who are, I don’t know, just embracing what God is doing in your place. Can you just talk a little bit about that small church, big church mentality? And what you see as the beauty and even the unique ministry opportunities there?
Jeffrey Shouse 05:43
Sure. I think you’d know the statistics better than I do, but it’s like 97-98% of all churches in the world really are small churches. And yet, there’s this inferiority complex that so many churches have. It’s like, “Well, what can we do? I mean, we’re just this little old church in this little old place.”
Jeffrey Shouse 06:11
But one of the things that we’re discovering now is we’re living in a world that is becoming more and more disconnected. Which is ironic, because we have social media, we have Skype, we have iPhones, we have so many Zoom conferences—so many ways to connect, and yet we feel more disconnected than ever before. Because, you know, just like this, we’re in two different parts of the country; this is an amazing thing that we can do here. But there’s something special about being face-to-face, there’s something special about occupying the same room together and getting to know each other’s names, to know each other’s heartache, to be able to help each other. And that’s a unique place that small churches do better than anybody else.
Jeffrey Shouse 07:09
People look at the events, they look at the big ministries, they look at all of that. And one of the things that we started discovering is that, look at what Jesus did. He started with 12, and he got to know those 12 so much better than anybody else. And then those 12 went out. And they didn’t go after the masses. I mean, we have the one time, the one deacon, Philip, he was getting too big of an audience, and God moved him out of there to go to one person.
Jeffrey Shouse 07:46
And so small churches provide a place where they are connected with ordinary people, because they are ordinary people. And they may not be big, they might not be fancy, they may not be polished. But I think there’s something beautiful in that. I think there’s something beautiful in the imperfections that we offer. Because it’s real, and it’s authentic. And we’re not doing it for the show. We’re doing it because, number one, we love God. And then secondly, we love each other because we need each other.
Laurie Graham 08:30
Yeah, have you always kind of embraced the smallness of a place? Or have you struggled, as many have, with, like, “Why is my church not growing?” or “Why do I not have a big following?” Did you ever struggle with that, or has that small church always had a place in your heart?
Jeffrey Shouse 08:46
I think everybody struggles with it. I think everybody goes through that. I mean, everybody wants to make a name for themselves. Nobody wants to live in obscurity. Nobody wants to be unknown or unseen. And there’s that draw of the lights and the glamour and the idea of, you know, “I can leave a legacy; I can make a name for myself.”
Jeffrey Shouse 09:12
And then I’ve had friends—one of the worst things that I kind of encountered, and so I stopped going to conferences—is because all the conferences, all the big speakers, all the main speakers, and all the breakout session speakers, for the most part (not all of them, but for the most part), are led by pastors who are pastoring churches of 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, and on and on and on. And they make you feel about an inch tall, because it’s almost as if there’s something wrong with me because I don’t have what you have. But the town that I live in is smaller than most of their churches, so I’m never going to have that. I just had to be okay with that.
Jeffrey Shouse 10:03
And so it’s through necessity, as well as through a change of perspective. The Lord really had to change my heart on saying bigger is not better. And as we have seen in the last 10 years, how many of these big-time church leaders have fallen? Yeah, a lot of that had to do with the fact that they pastored a big church and got a big name. And all the temptations come with that. And so, Stephanie and I talk about it all the time, we praise the Lord for protecting us from the big church. We thank God for protecting us from pastoring a large church.
Laurie Graham 10:46
Yeah, you know, when you mentioned, like, “no one wants to live in obscurity,” and “everyone wants to leave a legacy.” As I’m looking at you, and as I’ve gotten to know you and Stephanie, you are leaving a legacy. If you left the earth right now, how many people would be like, “Where’d my pastor go?” And it’s not the number, but it’s that depth because I saw that depth of relationship you all have. And I have to be honest, a bigger audience does not translate to a bigger legacy. That legacy, the life change, is so founded in deep, connected relationships. Can you talk to us a little bit about your revelation of being a community pastor? That was such a fun story I got to hear when I was having dinner with you and Stephanie, in your home. Do you remember the story you shared about that?
Jeffrey Shouse 11:37
Yeah. Stephanie and I were out one day, and I had this lady come up to me. She started asking me for, as I get very often, prayer requests or help, or—I can’t even remember what the exact conversation was. I’m trying to remember how everything went. It just came up. I introduced myself to her at the very beginning of that time and I said, “Well, I’m Jeff Shouse. I’m the pastor of the Baptist church down there.” And she goes, “Well, I know who you are. You’re my pastor.”
Jeffrey Shouse 12:18
looked at her, and I was thinking, “Really?” Because I’d never seen this woman before in my life. I had never seen her, ever. And she has never come to the church since I’ve been here. And I’ve been here for over nine years now. So it dawned on me that, you know, we live in a small town. We are the big church in town. We’re right around 100, a little bit over 100, in our worship services. But it dawned on me that she saw me as her pastor because she didn’t have any other church affiliation. She didn’t have any other church to go to. And so if she was going to come to church, she was going to come to our church, and if she was going to have a pastor, I was going to be him. And so she knew me, even though I didn’t know her.
Jeffrey Shouse 13:08
And that kind of flipped a switch for me. So, you know, the official title was Jeff Shouse, Pastor at First Baptist Church, Ramsey. The real title is Jeff Shouse, Pastor of Ramsey. And that flipped a switch into realizing, okay, the ministry that I have is not just here, but it’s beyond these walls. It’s in the streets, it’s in the schools, it’s in the grocery store. We’re in the gas station. And, you know, of course, there comes—it’s interesting, because I have a lot of friends who are pastors of large, large churches, and they have almost this freedom that they can go out, do whatever they want, nobody really knows who they are outside of just church. I go anywhere within a 50-mile radius of this place, people already know who I am. And that, I embrace that accountability. Because it reminds me that no matter where I am, what I’m doing, I have to represent Christ. And there is no time off for that. And there shouldn’t be. That’s how it should be.
Laurie Graham 14:29
Yeah, so I love the concept of a community pastor. Pastor Brian David Simms out in LA, he was on the podcast last year at some point, and he talked about how he saw himself as the community pastor. And when you said that to me, it just resonates so much with how I feel Christ would have walked around the planet, right? Like, “I’m their pastor, I’m their shepherd. I’m there.” And not just for the people who claim me as their shepherd, or claim me as their pastor. It’s about seeing that amount of care. And for you, Jeff, the love that you have for your community, not just the people who come to your church, but the people, as you mentioned, at the gas station down the street, your next-door neighbor, the person who’s, you know, out in the field farming—all those kinds of people. I just feel so much connection that you have with the people that you’re around.
Laurie Graham 15:27
How do you reach your community? How do you see yourself as the community pastor? What are some actions that you take, or that your church has opened its doors to? How do you actually connect with these people who don’t see themselves as part of your church?
Jeffrey Shouse 15:42
A lot of times, people are open during the most difficult times of their lives. And so one of the things that we do is, last year, I preached probably about 14 funerals, only for those who are members of our church. But every single one of them except for one, I think, the service was here at our church. We provided a meal, we provided grief counseling if they wanted it. And we were able to minister to them, because in the most difficult time that they’re going to experience this whole year, we’re right there with them. And they found comfort and peace and hope in this place through us. And to do something like that, it goes way beyond me. I mean, we have so many people involved. And they get to hear and see the love of the church, through the meals and through the music and through the sound and through people greeting them.
Jeffrey Shouse 16:54
And so our doors are always open. We have two different TOPS groups, which is a weight loss group; they meet here two different times a week. We don’t charge anything for that; we’d love to have them. The school meets in our building constantly. The basketball team—we have a gym. And so anytime that their schedule has conflicts for practice, they come over here, they practice in our gym. We are really striving to be the community center, where people know they can come here to be fed, they can come here and be cared for. They can get counseling here, they can get food here if they need it—whatever they need, this is the place.
Jeffrey Shouse 17:46
In fact, we had somebody call last week. And it was interesting because they called in the late evening—we get calls for benevolence and things like that. Well, she called; she said, “I need a plumber.” I said, “Okay.” And I said, “Well, we’re happy to take care of that for you. We need some more.” She said, “No, no, you don’t understand. I have the money, I’ll pay for it. I just can’t find anybody who would do it.” And so she didn’t know who else to call. The one place you call is the church! Well, we were able to give her a few numbers of people we knew, but it was just because we know who we have. You know, we have guys who come here and work on our plumbing. And we gave them their names because we have to pay for plumbing too. But it was just kind of funny because she had no—she didn’t know where else to go, even to find a name of a plumber. Yeah. And she thought, “Well, I know the church will help.”
Laurie Graham 18:51
So, okay, let me just ask you this. There are a lot of churches out there—churches of 100, churches of less than 100, churches in rural areas and suburban areas, wherever. And they don’t have the reputation that your church has. Like, there are churches who would say, “I would totally help if anybody would come to me, but nobody’s coming and nobody’s calling,” and things like that. What do you think has made the difference for your church? Have you even seen a transition in your time there? Like, have you always been the community church, or do you think there are things that you all have done to make yourselves available or known?
Jeffrey Shouse 19:24
We’ve been very intentional about making ourselves available. One of the big things that we did and that we are continuing to do is, we are in our school, all week, every week. We have members who are teachers there. At one time, every janitor in the building was a member of ours. So I have great relationships with both principals for the elementary school and the high school. Any time they need anything, they call me. Whether it’s taking school supplies or cosmetics or whatever the kids may need, we’re there.
Jeffrey Shouse 20:11
We do a program—in fact, we’re having one this Friday—called Lighthouse. What it is, is we invite all the community kids to come in, and they just play basketball. They play games; it’s just a fun time, and we feed them. We have a short service that they come and listen to. But we have 25-30 kids that aren’t members of our church, that aren’t regular attendees. And they’re coming on a Friday night here to be fed. And our people show up, and they get to know their names. We did an after-school program for a little while. So we were intentional about getting into some place.
Jeffrey Shouse 20:55
Here in Ramsey, our school is really the center of our community, as it is in like communities. And so what we did was we said, “Okay, how can we partner with you in order to help you do what you’re doing?” And I think we had to fight a lot of suspicion and a lot of cynicism. We had to take some hits on some things and say, “Listen, we’re not here to make a name for ourselves. We’re not here to try to get you to come to our church. We really are here just to help you help these kids.” And it took a good three, four years of faithful, consistent showing up.
Jeffrey Shouse 21:43
We feed our teachers. At the beginning of each school year, on Teacher Appreciation Week, we make sure there’s something in their lounge—snacks or something that they can have. And the only message is, “We love you. We love you.” It’s not, “Come to church,” it’s not, “These are our times, these are our services.” They know who we are; they can look up what time our service is. We just simply want to say, “We love you.” And now over the last four or five years, if there’s a crisis, we’re the ones they call. We’ve actually been invited in, instead of trying to get a foot in, they’re inviting, and we’re the first ones they call. So it’s been a long, slow transition. But one of the things I tell people all the time is, “God is not in a hurry. He grows faith.” And so we have to be faithful, even if we never get credit for it.
Laurie Graham 22:50
Yeah, it’s so refreshing to hear you even just say, “You know, we want to serve you, we want to help you do what you’re doing. We want to partner with you.” Because so many times in small churches, there’s like a desperation of, “We’ve got to get people in the church! We’ve got to get people in the church!” And this isn’t successful unless those people end up coming to our church. And I haven’t heard you say that once.
Jeffrey Shouse 23:16
Jesus said, “If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto myself.” And it is our responsibility, number one, to love people. Then we have to earn the right to share the gospel with them. And even then, we have to wait for the right opportunity. You know, we’ve tried the whole confrontational evangelism thing that’s been promoted. And for the most part, I mean, there are exceptions to everything, but what we’re finding is the relationship model that we saw Jesus do, the relationship model that we’re finding out here, it just works. And we have to wait for the right time for the Gospel, but when that opportunity comes, we have to see it and seize it. And that’s the other key to that. Yeah.
Laurie Graham 24:13
The relationship model. I heard you say that, and how would you define that for people who might be like, “What’s the relationship model?” and they’re looking for a strategy?
Jeffrey Shouse 24:23
Oh, it’s not a strategy. It’s just loving people. It’s loving people for where they are. And it’s funny, because almost everybody knows who I am. There are some people who don’t know who I am, and that’s just fine. I’ll go work out at the gym, and every once in a while, I’ll come into the gym and they’ll have no clue who I am. So I’ll just start talking with them, and we’ll just build—you know, just get to know each other.
Jeffrey Shouse 24:56
There was one guy specifically, we just kind of ended up at the gym at the same time, working out together for almost a month straight. We’re talking about two or three times a week, where that same time. So it just kind of became a joke at first, and then we just really got to know each other. For the summer, he just knew me as Jeff. That’s all.
Jeffrey Shouse 25:19
And the owner of the gym is a friend of mine. He comes to church; he’s a great guy. So this other guy that I was talking to had talked to him, and somehow it came up in the conversation that he had said, “There’s just one guy who comes in at the same time that I do.” And Danny, the owner of the gym, knows that’s when I go and work out. He said, “Oh, you’re talking about the pastor at the church.” He was like, “What?!”
Jeffrey Shouse 25:52
The first time we were back in there together, it was so stinking awkward because he just—before, he was just, you know, he spoke out some words, he was just a regular guy. And so now he’s trying to be super careful in what he’s saying. And I can tell he’s almost apologetic. And I was like, “Listen, what has changed from last week to this week? Nothing. You just know what I do for a living. You just know who I am.” I said, “I didn’t judge you before, and I won’t judge you now.”
Jeffrey Shouse 26:34
And now, over the course of time, I’ve been able to share Christ with him, a little bit at a time. And I can tell when he starts to tune me out. And sometimes we have to give people time to process the Gospel, for sure. So coming at it in bits is more effective. Now, if I had just come in that first time and said, “Hey, I’m the pastor down at the church, and let me tell you about Jesus,” he would have told me—he would have never showed up again when I was there. We still, you know, of course, I haven’t been in several months now because of my ankle injury surgery. But I know that when I go back, and if I go back at the same time, if he’s there, we’ll just pick right up where we left off.
Laurie Graham 27:23
Love it! I love it. It’s been so fun hearing a little more of your story and just the amount of influence that your church has in the community. And I just love that people are saying, “He’s my pastor,” even if they’ve never been in your church
Laurie Graham 27:36
Before we go, can we talk just a little bit about volunteers? Because a lot of volunteers in churches think, “Oh, that’s the pastor’s job,” or “I don’t want to overstep,” or, “You know, I’m just a volunteer.” That phrase, “I’m just a volunteer”—what do you think of volunteers?
Jeffrey Shouse 27:54
Oh, there’s no way we could do a tenth of what we do here without our volunteers. And I believe—I don’t even like that term “volunteer.” They are just as much a minister of the church as I am.
Jeffrey Shouse 28:12
Now, we have changed the way we’ve gone about it. One of the things that we’ve done is we’ve identified what people’s interests are. Once again, relationship model! We have to get to know people. What do people like to do? What do people enjoy doing? We’ve tailored our ministries around that, instead of what some convention or some book says, “This is what you should be doing.”
Jeffrey Shouse 28:41
I really believe that God has given us everything we need to be effective today. And that includes: we have everybody we need now to be effective. We don’t need more people; we need to use the people we have. And a lot of that has to do with finding out who they are.
Jeffrey Shouse 29:00
So we instituted a rule: when somebody joins our church, for one year, they can’t lead anything. They’re not allowed to lead anything. Because we want them to get involved in the ministries we already have. And we want time to get to know them. And we want them to have time to get to know who we are.
Jeffrey Shouse 29:21
After that year is up, and they’ve been involved and faithful in things, we’ll come to them and say, “Hey, we see this in you. What do you think about being a part of this?” Or, “What do you think about doing this for us?” The whole idea of just saying, “Hey, we need somebody to do this”—90% of the time, nobody wants to get up and say, “I’ll do that.” But when you go to somebody individually, it makes them feel special because it makes them feel seen. “You know me, you know that I would have enjoyed doing that. You know that that’s a passion of mine. That’s something I enjoy doing already.”
Jeffrey Shouse 30:02
So, there are still a few people who will turn us down. But for the most part, honestly, out of the 100—this past Sunday, we had 125 in our worship service—I could look out in the congregation, I know at least 80 of them are involved in one ministry of some kind.
Laurie Graham 30:22
Well, it’s so true. When people say, “Oh, people are too busy to serve,” or “They don’t want to serve,” or “They’re not committed,” I have never found that to be true. I think people love to be involved in things that bring them joy and things that bring them significance. Like you said, nobody wants to be unknown or unseen or not have a legacy. We all want that. And when we can tap into that in our churches, and just see who God has brought, and what He’s designed for your specific church, it’s quite amazing. And it’s very creative. Have you seen anything happen in your church that you maybe weren’t anticipating or weren’t part of your master vision, but somebody came along and you’re like, “Wow, look what’s happening here”?
Jeffrey Shouse 30:42
Well, it’s so true. When people say, “Oh, people are too busy to serve,” or “They don’t want to serve,” or “They’re not committed,” I have never found that to be true. I think people love to be involved in things that bring them joy and things that bring them significance. Like you said, nobody wants to be unknown or unseen or not have a legacy. We all want that. And when we can tap into that in our churches, and just see who God has brought, and what He’s designed for your specific church, it’s quite amazing. And it’s very creative. Have you seen anything happen in your church that you maybe weren’t anticipating or weren’t part of your master vision, but somebody came along and you’re like, “Wow, look what’s happening here”? Unexpected Ministries Yeah, we’ve got a couple of things. One, we have a meal train that we have, which sounds kind of weird, but here’s how it works: We have one lady in the church who’s very technologically savvy, and also an incredible cook. Anytime we have somebody who’s having surgery, or has had a death in the family, or is sick—during COVID, I mean, that thing was running constantly. We’ve got a list of 20 women, maybe a few men too, who are on her database. She has set up a calendar and assigned people, and they go in and say, “We’ll make this meal at this time.” And then that’s all they do. They make the meal, they go to the person’s house, they bring it, they pray with them, and they leave. When I had my surgery, we had people show up every day for that first week. I didn’t expect that. I didn’t ask for that. And yet, here they are. They saw the need, and so they came in and helped us out. And it was amazing.
Laurie Graham 32:18
That’s a ministry that’s run by a volunteer?
Jeffrey Shouse 32:22
Yes. Yes.
Laurie Graham 32:24
I love it. I love watching ministry grow organically out of people’s gifts and their passions and all of that. It’s really beautiful to see.
Jeffrey Shouse 32:32
Yeah, honestly, I don’t even know. I’m sure they’re feeding somebody right now, but I have no idea who it is or perhaps even taking meals. So I don’t need to know. I check in with them every once in a while. I ask, “What can I do for it?” “No, it’s going good.” “Okay. Move on.”
Laurie Graham 32:54
It is so great to be connected with you, Jeff, and just to, I don’t know, just to know that you’re representing Christ so well in this community. And I love thinking of small churches as like little satellites all over the planet. Before we run out of time, what do you want to say to pastors, to volunteers, to small churches? What’s left on your heart that you want to share?
Jeffrey Shouse 33:18
I think the biggest thing, or if I just had one thing to encourage pastors of small churches and in small churches, is I’ve already said it, but God has given you everything you already need. Stop looking at what you wish it could be. Stop looking at what you want it to be. And start seeing it for what it is, and the potential that is there. Because God has given you all the talents, and use the talents He’s given you. You have a wealth of ministry sitting within those pews, sitting within those chairs. You have wisdom there, of these guys who have been through battles. And so they know what’s going to work and what’s not going to work, and use them. Don’t fight against them; use them, and get to be a family. And then you’ll see God really—I really believe you’ll see God work. It’ll take time. He’s not in a hurry. He grows slowly. So be patient.
Laurie Graham 34:34
I love it. Thank you for sharing your story with us, Jeff. I think one of the things that we need to do more in small churches is get connected to people who are loving their ministry and seeing God work, because, as you mentioned earlier, when you used to go to ministry conferences, they’re usually filled with people in big churches, and it makes us feel so small and minimized and maybe not as important. But when we get around other people from smaller places who are excited, who are watching God move, who are making an impact in their community, it gives us a different kind of hope and a different kind of passion and a different kind of momentum. Like, “Oh, this can be happening in our church where we are.” Because there’s nothing special—well, there is something special, but there’s nothing different that’s special about the people in Ramsey than about the people in Elgin, or the people in, you know, Aurora, or the people in Tucson. Like, everyone has their special uniqueness. God brought us together in our places where we are. And I just feel like if we could tap into that, and I do really believe that sharing stories and hearing from pastors like yourself is one of the biggest things that happens in our community, in our Small Church Network, in Small Church Academy, and in our free Facebook community. Because instead of going to conferences and seeing all these big churches, we could never do the same types of things. We come to conferences and hear from people like you, in small churches. We listen to podcasts from people in smaller churches who are literally experiencing God at work right where they’re at.
Jeffrey Shouse 36:12
It’s funny, because these conferences, we decided, you know what, we need to do something for the small churches. And so we have three conferences a year. And we have a women’s conference, we have a worship conference, and then we have a youth conference. And it’s all small churches, and they’re all growing and growing and growing.
Laurie Graham 36:37
I really believe it’s God’s—it’s God using it all around the planet, using small churches everywhere. We just have to, we have to join Him. We have to see what He’s doing, and we just have to join Him instead of wishing for something we don’t have. So such a joy to have you on the podcast, Jeff. Thank you so much. I hope I get to have dinner with you in person again sometime as well.
Laurie Graham 36:57
And for everybody who’s listening, if you are not part of the Small Church Network and Academy yet, come join us! If you’re not part of our free Facebook group yet, come join us! We will post some links below. Come find us wherever you’re at for the encouragement, support, and training that you need. We are here for you. So anyway, everybody, we’ll talk to you next week. Until then, be a light.