118: Children’s Ministry In Small Churches: Here’s The Gift We Have To Offer | with Natalie Frisk

Laurie Graham 0:01
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to the Small Church Ministry podcast.

Laurie Graham 0:14
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast! I am so excited today, and actually this whole month. We are going to be talking a lot about children’s ministry, probably referred to on this podcast as Kidmin.

So if you’re unfamiliar with the term Kidmin, that is kids’ ministry, children’s ministry. And we’ll also be talking about youth because we have a conference coming up. I’m just taking advantage of these amazing speakers that I’ve been able and blessed to meet as we’ve been getting this conference together. So I just want to introduce you today to Natalie Friske. Natalie, I’m so happy you’re here. Do you want to tell everybody where you’re from, where you’re dialing in from today, and a little bit about you—whatever feels important this morning?

Natalie Frisk 0:57
Yeah, absolutely. I’m so glad to be here! I’m dialing in from just outside Hamilton, Ontario, which is near Toronto. I’m the Director of Curriculum for Raise Up Faith, an organization that primarily provides curriculum resources and a platform for ministry. And wow, I absolutely love small churches! I grew up in one, and after working at a large, multisite church for a while, I’ve returned to a small church. It feels so good to be back; it’s like a nest to fall into, so lovely.

Laurie Graham 1:45
I love how you just described that as a “nest to fall into.” I totally interrupted you, and I want you to finish introducing yourself, but for those of you listening, we’re going to talk today about small churches and how limitations aren’t really limitations, but rather opportunities to do a different kind of ministry. I’m just bringing this up because you mentioned being at a large, multi-site church and now you’re back at a small church, which is a similar experience to mine. I had also been at a large church. I think sometimes when we’re growing up in something, and we don’t know anything different, we miss out on how beautiful it is, right? So for some people who’ve been in small churches their whole life, if the grass looks greener with more numbers, we’re both living testimonies here, right? Okay, keep going, Natalie.

Natalie Frisk 2:34
Absolutely. And, yeah, I think, as a kid growing up in a small church, I can now look back and go, “Wow, what a sweet community it was.” You know, I think as a youth, I was in that weird space of wanting to be where all my friends were, and all those kinds of things. But yeah, anyway, we’ll come back to all that fun stuff. As I mentioned, Raise Up Faith is the organization I work for. I worked in pastoral ministry for over 15 years. I also wrote a book called Raising Disciples: How to Make Faith Matter for Our Kids, which can definitely be a resource for anyone who has kids in their life. And, yeah, so here I am talking with you, Laurie, and I am so excited to dive into this, talking about the non-limitations of small churches. 

Laurie Graham 3:31
Yeah, well, that was fun, because when I reached out to you, I said, “What do you want to talk about?” And you were very quick to say, “This one! I want to talk about this.” So you picked the topic for today. Why did you pick this topic? Why do you think it’s important to talk about what we’re about to embark on?

Natalie Frisk 3:47
I think that in a small church context, it can be easy to get into the space of, “Well, you know, maybe you love your church community, you love the people. But man, if we just had more resources, if we just could afford to do this thing, or if we just had a really strong number that we could draw from, whether that’s volunteers or kids, then our ministry would excel.”

As opposed to saying, “Man, look at this gift of the community that we’re a part of, and what we can do with kids and youth in our context, that in a large church, actually, you can’t.” Large church is good for drawing crowds and getting masses of people. But the reality is that discipleship happens in smaller contexts. And so real, genuine connection and long-term relationship, I think, happen best in small church contexts. So that’s kind of my primer for today: that these things that oftentimes we will look at and go, “Oh, if only we could,” or “it’s an obstacle because,” instead, we should say, “Actually, we’re in a place that is really rich and ready for discipleship to happen.”

Laurie Graham 5:19
Okay, so which obstacles do you want to talk about on the podcast today? Let’s take one and kind of unpack it. What is one of the obstacles that you see small churches often mention, saying, “If we only had this, we could do that”? Does that sound good? Can we just unpack them one at a time?

Natalie Frisk 5:34
Yeah, let’s do it. If we only had more volunteers.

Laurie Graham 5:39
That’s a good one. Okay. Now, when you’re listen—I don’t know where you all are listening from, if you’re on the treadmill, if you are like in the car, if you’re out exercising somewhere in nature, but can you just nod your head to this one: “If we only had volunteers, more volunteers.” Okay.

Natalie Frisk 5:55
I’m unpacking more at the conference, at the Kidmin Youth Main Conference, you know, how we can really dive into that in really, really rich ways. But I would just say, if we only had more volunteers, sometimes you get an inch deep and a mile wide, and you actually lack more than you gain. When you have people that are regularly present and invested, it doesn’t take as many to do what is so gloriously done in a discipleship context, to say, “You know, what’s really important for kids is that they have a level of familiarity and develop a relationship with the adults in their lives.” And so if you have the same faces that they’re encountering, the same people that they can learn to trust and feel known to, that’s a game changer, that is a game changer.

I can think, in my own small church experience, when I was a kid, I can still to this day tell you who those ladies were in that context, who were committed and invested. And I can look back now as an adult and go, “Wow, I want to be that. I want to do that. I want to show up.” And so I think in our small church context, it’s finding those folks, the handful who want to show up and genuinely care for kids. I think there’s also the misunderstanding when we’re doing volunteer recruitment, that people who serve kids have to have some type of pizzazz and “wow” factor. But I think that’s actually a misunderstanding. I think it’s people who want to listen to kids, who want to make space for kids, that you don’t have to be cool. Yeah. Which is actually quite a relief, because, yeah, right? Trying to be cool is so exhausting. I was a youth pastor for years, and I tried it, it didn’t work.

Laurie Graham 8:16
You know, as you’re talking about more volunteers, this popped into my head, because, yeah, it’s not just that we want more for the sake of more. But wanting more volunteers is usually born out of a desire to solve an issue at your church. So, your church is running Kidmin or youth ministry or children’s ministry, and you want more volunteers to solve an issue like: “Our volunteers are burnt out,” or “We can’t cover the rooms we want,” or, “You know, we can’t staff our nursery.” And I think one of the things to think about is, what are the other solutions to burnout? Because more volunteers do not solve all the issues I just mentioned. It doesn’t. More volunteers actually can be a nightmare. It’s harder to coordinate. It’s more people to talk to. It’s more people to develop and do team building with. So there are solutions in the midst of, “Yeah, we want volunteers because our volunteers are burnt out.” Yeah. Okay. Yeah. How about if we develop a better team based on our small church context, instead of looking for a solution that’s not going to fix it anyway? Right?

Natalie Frisk 9:18
Yes, exactly. Exactly. And I think, such a gift in the small church context is looking at the church as—I mean, we talk about churches as family, as the body of Christ—and looking at that family atmosphere and really leaning into that more, I think, is really helpful and healthy in a small church context. To say, “You know what, we’re going to have a—maybe part of your volunteer recruitment strategy,” which sounds so clunky and big, “maybe it’s finding the grandparents in the midst, those folks who just don’t… they feel like, ‘Oh, I did, you know, I served in kids’ ministry years and years ago. It’s the young folks’ turn to serve, right?'”

But to see, what if once a month you had like a “Grandparents Sunday”? And I don’t necessarily mean anybody’s biological grandparents, but to say it’s the seniors who still feel like they have something to contribute in that way, that they serve once a month. What a gift to the kids! What a gift to the adults that are serving! Like, that’s a beautiful intergenerational experience that I think we tend to forget how rich those experiences can be, just even for kids to learn to interact with grownups of different ages and stages too, and learn from them and their rich, long experience of following Jesus. I mean, that’s really beneficial.

Laurie Graham 11:00
Less volunteers can actually lead to a tighter team that develops stronger relationships, fostering more of a family feel and greater consistency for the kids, leading to deeper, intergenerational relationships. You’ve listed tons of benefits, and I know you’ll be expanding on that at the upcoming conference. So, what’s another obstacle that you think small churches have or perceive that really can be flipped on its head, where it’s truly not an obstacle but an opportunity for something richer?

Natalie Frisk 11:25
Yeah, I think with small churches, sometimes kids enter a small church, and the grown-up side of me thinks, “Oh, man, if those kids aren’t seeing other kids right away, they’re going to feel like it’s not for them.” That it’s not for them, right? Whereas we hear—I have peers and friends, and people I’ve known through the church years—who say, “Oh, yeah, we’ve chosen to go to that church because of their kids’ ministry for our kids. We don’t really connect, but we want to go because our kids [do] X, Y, and Z.” Right?

Laurie Graham 12:06
That’s because the ministry is bigger, right? Like, we would have people come and visit the church and say, “We love your church. It’s really sweet. We think it’s amazing. But we want to go somewhere with a bigger group for our kids.” Okay, talk about that, because I have stuff to share on that, too.

Natalie Frisk 12:22
I think one crucial aspect is helping kids see that this is a welcome atmosphere for them, no matter if there are other kids in the mix or not. I’ll give you a really small example. The church that we are part of now, when we first started going, my daughter is going to be a teenager this summer, so we’re getting into that next age level. On that first Sunday, there were a couple of kids around her age, and then maybe one toddler, and that was it in the congregation. Now she’s at a place where she’s fine to go wherever and engage wherever; she wants community too. But I was seeing this toddler and thinking, “Man, there’s not really anybody else for this kid.”

Natalie Frisk 13:25
But what did the church do? First, they still had a children’s message as part of the worship time that really encouraged participation of all children of all ages, which I loved. Second, they always had Sunday school. If you have one kid, you keep it going. They did a two-on-one kind of a thing. They always had something for kids. And I know that there’s an ebb and flow of our numbers and all that stuff, based on how the year is, illness, and all the things. But now, we’ve been at this church almost, well, probably nine months, and most Sundays, there are probably six or seven kids under the age of ten. Again, it just shows the consistency of the church to commit to and value kids, which I think is so important.

Natalie Frisk 14:26
I have a friend who says it’s about having a high view of kids. It’s actually seeing kids as a value add to the community and always communicating—whether in conversation or from the pulpit—the value of kids. I think the risk or the danger is that sometimes big churches, small churches, all churches in between, will inadvertently, I think, talk about the “problem” of kids. They’ll say, “There’s a volunteer problem, there’s a volunteer shortage, we’ve got to make sure that we take care of the kids, but it’s a problem,” as opposed to seeing it as, “We love kids, and we’re so excited for this opportunity,” and seeing the value of kids as Jesus saw kids, right?

Natalie Frisk 15:26
So I think having that posture as a small church, to welcome kids in and have things for the kids—and I don’t mean cheap plastic things that get thrown away into a landfill later—but having items that show kids are part of the community, that kids are welcome here, and kids are expected to arrive here, not a, “Oh, no, we should probably find something.” I’ve been in some communities where, if for whatever reason, they can’t provide a kids’ program, they’ll have a little bag for the kids with different items, right? They’ll have little Play-Doh, and some coloring sheets, and ways to engage them throughout the time. And I just think it’s showing that value to the kids that, “Hey, we expected you to be here, we’re excited that you’re here. And we’re going to talk about the fact that we love and value you and want you to see that you’re part of this. You’re part of the body. Not like we’re waiting for you to become, we’re waiting for you to grow tall enough to be the arm of Christ, where you actually are right now part of that body.”

Natalie Frisk 16:39
I think it’s communicating in that way from all ministry spheres, not just the Kidmin or youth sphere, but from whoever is teaching, preaching on a Sunday, from the announcements, and everybody in between, that they’re on the same page. In that way, I think in a small church, we can do that in a way that’s even more authentic, because we’re actually talking about people we know.

Laurie Graham 17:06
And you know, as you’re talking about that, what’s popping into my mind is like owning and embracing the gifts that we have. Because I think of growing up as a teenager and wishing I had different hair, or different talents, or whatever. And then you kind of end up owning who you are, hopefully, as we mature. And I know some people never do, and they live sad, insecure lives when God has given them so much, right? And so, as a smaller church, when we have a feeling like an insecurity—that nobody’s going to want to come here because we don’t have enough kids, if only we had kids—it reflects back to people.

But when we can say, “Yeah, we don’t have a big group, but this is what we do have,” that’s powerful. One story: My kids grew up in a small church. I grew up when I was a kid, I had a fairly large youth group. It wasn’t a large church, it was a mid-size church, but our youth group was, you know, 20-30 kids, very consistent, very, very active. Very, you know, and I got a lot of identity there. But I want to contrast that with my kids who grew up with, usually, the group was “the van”—whoever I brought in my van, like my kids and the neighbor…

Laurie Graham 18:21
So there could have been just my kids with a couple of others for a lot of their youth group life. But here’s the difference: When I got out of high school, I never went back to anybody at that church for advice. If I broke up with a boy, if I was struggling with a job, if I was looking for direction in my life, I really did not return to those kids. I’m not friends with any one of them. I kind of know who some of them are on Facebook, right? But my kids are now in their 20s. I can’t even count on two hands how often they have come back from a trip, from school, from a breakup, from whatever, and said, “You know, I really want to talk to so-and-so.” “Oh, I dropped by so-and-so’s house”—an adult who wasn’t even necessarily the youth leader or the teacher.

They each have more than a handful of adults from my church, from the church where they grew up, in random ways. Like, “How did they connect with that person? Why are they going to that person for advice?” Literally, when they are sad, when they’re struggling, when they’re looking for wisdom, they go, not just to me, right? But they say, “Oh, I stopped by so-and-so’s house.” I’m like, “What? Like, you stopped by his house? What are you doing?” You know? “Oh, I wanted to hear what they thought of this.” They literally have connections from this tiny little church they grew up in, they’re in their 20s, and they’re still visiting adults who are surrogate parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles—like a surrogate family for them. But it’s beautiful connection.

Natalie Frisk 19:53
I love that so much. It made me think of research studies that I read in these ways—all the Barna Research studies or Pew Research or whoever, right? And there was a research study that pointed to the fact that kids who actually will stay in the faith as they grow need to have at least five other points of connection to adults who aren’t their parents, within a discipleship context. And so, when you’re in a small church, those relationships are just much more organic. Like, I’ve been in large churches where they try—I’m going to say “manipulate” those, but build structures to create those connections—as opposed to, “We sit beside these folks every Sunday, and they interact, and they know who we are.” And we know that, you know, so-and-so… I mean, let’s be honest, I’m in a small church where people primarily sit in the same seats every Sunday. I feel like they’re all creatures of habit, and there’s something healthy about that.

And, you know, when they’re not there, or when we’re not there, somebody will say, “Oh, you know, we missed you guys last week.” There’s that familiarity, that family feeling of “part of our family is not here this week,” and “let’s check in, let’s connect, let’s follow up.” As opposed to almost the assumption—and this is a really broad generalization, and maybe slightly unfair, but I feel like I’ve seen it enough in large church contexts—where it’s almost the assumption that you’re going to attend a couple times a month as opposed to every week, right? And so then people can kind of fall off the map a little more easily.

And I think in particular, of kids and youth, because oftentimes, as a parent of a child that has experienced this, you know, there are their sports or other activities that do sometimes bleed into causing us to miss something. And so then, when you actually do miss something, somebody’s more apt to follow up to say, “Hey, are you guys doing alright?” or, “Yeah, whatever that might be.” And I think that’s really meaningful. I mean, it points to the reality of these relational connections being so important in our discipleship of kids and youth. And, yeah, I just keep coming back to that concept of just the family kind of dynamic of a small church. That is, yeah, I don’t know, it feels so right. Yeah.

Natalie Frisk 22:47
The other thing I’m saying about you, I think I was going to say about kind of having that high view of kids and welcoming them in, is giving them opportunity. As we’re welcoming them in, a quick example from our current church context: Our pastor, his name is Graham, he’s lovely. And he is very much in the zone of, as you said, kind of being comfortable in the sense of “this is our identity as a church,” and he wants growth, but not because he wants numbers, but because he actually genuinely wants people to welcome into the body of Christ. And, you know, he will take there’s this little guy, oh my goodness, he’s just so cute. He’s probably three or four. And he will get him to be his little assistant for the children’s message most weeks that he shows up, because he loves the engagement.

And, you know, this kid is just like, “I’m someone here.” And, like, I just, it gives me chills thinking about it. Because don’t we just want our kids to feel like they’re someone here? Like, that they’re meaningful participants in the body of Christ? And so I think, when I think about that little four-year-old guy, my hope and prayer for him within our church context, but then within the big ‘C’ Church context, is that he will know and remember that feeling of being a meaningful heart of the Body of Christ, his whole life through. And, and I just think there’s that opportunity in small churches to help kids integrate more meaningfully, sooner, maybe in their discipleship journey, into what it looks like to be meaningful participants in the body of Christ that is the church.

Natalie Frisk 23:40
We had, like I said, we haven’t been at this church for very long. But there was a youth Sunday where the youth band, which is literally my daughter and another boy, and then they have another friend that does the tech, and they lead worship, they lead musical worship. And it, I mean, it was beautiful. And my daughter said probably three times the day she was asked to do it, “Like, I can’t believe they’re letting us do this.” “Yeah, I can’t believe that we’ve been invited to do this.” And I just think, man, for all of my small church friends who are listening, to buy into that feeling, that connection for our kids and our youth, to know that they are meaningful participants in the body of Christ, what a gift. And I’ve been in large churches where, because of a certain level of or assumption of excellence, we put off inviting kids and youth into those opportunities.

Laurie Graham 25:57
100%! That’s one of the biggest gifts of small churches: being able to develop and welcome people into service who might not be in larger churches. We’re going to talk all month about the many gifts and unique qualities that small churches offer that large churches simply cannot in their context. I think there’s a real opportunity here to embrace that we have something truly unique to give. Now, Natalie, I want to ask you: How do you think we can make the shift from “Oh, woe is me, we don’t have enough kids, we don’t have this” to “We have this to offer”? For me, that is one of the biggest obstacles in small churches today. It’s not what they have to offer, it’s that they don’t grasp it. They don’t understand that they have this beautiful gift to give, and they’re always stuck in that “Oh, woe is me, if only we had more” mindset. How do you think we shift into that?

Natalie Frisk 26:55
Honestly, and I hope this doesn’t sound trite or too simple, but I think it’s in prayer. I think it’s in surrender. I think it’s in asking God the Father to help us redefine how we view ourselves within the ministry context we’re in. Because it can be easy to fall to the idols of comparison, right? Like, “Oh, we’re not drawing in dozens and dozens of kids every Sunday, and therefore, we’re failing.” Well, no, that’s not it. We’re being obedient to what Christ is calling us to. So it’s, I think, done in a posture of surrender, even if it needs to be daily or weekly, to say in prayer, “God, I have these thoughts, and I have these feelings about our church context.”

And I’m going to metaphorically, figuratively, in prayer, lay them at the feet of Jesus to say, “These are all the tensions and frustrations, or feelings of the ‘shoulds’ that I fall to. Laying them at his feet, to say, ‘I’m giving it to you, please remind me of my purpose and my identity, as I serve in this capacity in a way that I really feel like we’re called to be in the places and spaces that we’re in.'” So what does it look like to… I think you kind of mentioned it, it’s getting through that almost teenage angst of our identity of who we are within a small church to get to a more mature version of, “Wow, this is who I am, this is who we are. And we get to…” I think that’s the other phrase that I return to, is instead of “now we have to” or “oh, I should,” falling into those more negative tones of posture, but to say, “We get to.” We get to do this. We get to serve Christ in this way. We get to serve the kids, the most formative and vulnerable amongst us. We get to serve them. What a gift. What an incredible gift, a huge responsibility. But I think it’s getting over that mental shift to say, “God, this is for you.”

Natalie Frisk 29:38
We believe that He wants to move. We know He wants to move. He’s a good God. He’s a perfect parent. He wants to give His kids good gifts. And so we ask—we ask Him and invite Him to change our postures. I think that’s the only real way. I don’t think there’s a mental push that we can do to get past it ourselves. I think it’s a prayer posture thing that we come into.

Laurie Graham 30:01
How about a little bit of prayer also, like, “God, open my eyes! Let me see what you’re doing here.” Like, “What are you doing here that I’m missing?” You know, I think about the other night, my house has become a little bit of a zoo. People keep asking if it’s sad to be an empty nester, and I’m like, “I haven’t experienced it yet,” like they’re always back, going back. And so, yeah, my middle daughter recently moved home temporarily with a puppy. And so her significant other is over a lot. And my son keeps coming over a lot because of the puppy.

We just have a lot more traffic right now. But the other night, it was just going to be Ellie and me. And I was like, “What? I just get, like, it’s just the two of us!” And as you were talking about just a moment ago, kind of embracing those moments, it wasn’t an “Oh, there’s only one here tonight.” It was like a glorious, like, “Oh my gosh, it’s just her! It’s just me and her tonight,” and it was really beautiful. And I think I feel like Jesus would feel like that. Like, “I get John today. I get John, just me and John today.” Like, “Oh, it’s me and Peter today.” You know, I just feel like that. Getting away from that feeling that there has to be all this activity for God to be present is just inaccurate. I think it limits our joy and our experience of God at work.

Natalie Frisk 31:28
Absolutely. You made me think of a quote from a pastor and author named Brian Zahnd. He said once that a pastor’s job is to pray and teach others how. And I just think about that, for us to say, what we’re praying is, “God, help me to see where you’re at work.” And then our prayer is that we’re going to whomever is entrusted in our sphere—kids, in this context—to teach them how. And what does it look like to engage them meaningfully in the creative lens of God? Where are you at work? And when you invite kids into those conversations, oh my gosh, it is so much more interesting and engaging and fun.

And the opportunity we have in a small church, in a kind of more smaller-ratioed adult-to-kid scenario, is we can actually hear from them. We can actually listen. I think we glean so much in the kingdom when we actually have time and space to listen to kids and what they have to offer in conversation. My gosh, I think we miss that a lot in the busyness of life and also in the excess numbers of certain church ministries. When we are one-on-one, one-on-two, three, or four, you can hear. You can invite kids to imagine or just really lean into their questions. Oh man, when you get kids going on some of their questions, and then you ask them what they think, there’s a whole Sunday school time, you know? Oh, absolutely. Like, starting off with a “I wonder what…” and then letting them go with it.

Natalie Frisk 33:32
The other night, my daughter and I were chatting as I put her to bed, as we often do at the end of the day. I can’t remember how it came up, but she said, “I wonder what heaven smells like.” And then we got into this bizarre and interesting conversation, like we hope there are baked cookies in heaven because that’s a good smell. But getting kids into those kinds of conversations, you glean a childlikeness that’s so beautiful, that they envy the rest of the church. And it just lends to that sense of kids are welcome here.

Laurie Graham 34:16
Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, I can’t believe we have to stop talking. This has been such an amazing conversation. Thank you for taking time to be with us. Before we leave, Natalie, how can people find your book or stay in contact with you? I mean, other than grabbing a free ticket to the Kidmin conference—that is amazing and happens on the last Saturday of April. You do not want to miss that, everyone! I just have to say, people always—I say this, even when people say this always happens and you’re like, “Whatever, it doesn’t always,” this always happens—after every conference, we get a multitude of people reaching out saying, “I can’t believe I missed it! I didn’t hear about it! I wish I had been there!” because they hear so much goodness.

So don’t miss the free Kidmin and Youth Conference happening the last Saturday in April. But Natalie is one of our speakers, she’s going to be there speaking. She’s actually talking about volunteer recruitment. But if people want to find your book that you mentioned, or get in touch with you, or learn more from you, what’s the best way?

Natalie Frisk 35:18
Goodness gracious! Well, you can get my book anywhere you buy books. So even if that is asking your library to order it in, your library can just order it, and then you can not buy it and share it around. I’m cool with that.

Laurie Graham 35:34
Yes, the book is called Raising Disciples. It’s available on Amazon and wherever else you typically buy books! You can even ask your local library to order it.

Natalie Frisk 35:44
Yeah, everywhere you buy books. And to get in touch with me, I’m still on that old thing they call Twitter—no, we call it X now, but I still call it Twitter. You can find me at @nataliefrisk there. You can find me on Instagram or Facebook; I’m Natalie Frisk. There is only one of me that I know of. I know, there might be a second, but I think she’s from like, Norway or Sweden, so that’s not me. And you can email me at natalie.frisk@raiseupfaith.com. I’m always happy to chat. Also, if you’re a small church that’s looking for how to facilitate curriculum or VBS, or any of those things, I would love to chat with you. So bring it on!

Laurie Graham 36:26
Right, we will make sure to put all those links in the show notes! Well, I can’t wait. You and I will be talking more and more as the conference approaches, so we’re very excited! Thank you for listening in. We’re excited that you chose to spend some time with us today. Every time someone mentions just being encouraged or finding hope,

I’m so grateful for this community that has sprung up—people who are sharing what God is doing in small churches and how they are making a difference in their communities. Because I think the more we share these stories of God at work in small places, the more we are not only encouraged but also equipped to go do the same. Until next week, everybody, be a light!