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What do you do when kids don’t come to Sunday school and teens have better options than youth group?
When parents don’t prioritize church and our communities no longer recognize Sundays as sacred?
Learn how to let go of what’s not working and grab hold of what is.
Listen in to hear simple shifts and doable next steps for any size church to build a ministry legacy that starts today and impacts generations to come.
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Laurie Graham 0:01
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to the Small Church Ministry podcast.
Laurie Graham 0:15
Hey, welcome back to the Small Church Ministry podcast, where we not only believe that God works in small numbers, but we see it and we see it every single day. So we love small churches. We know that small church ministry is not less ministry than larger churches, but it is a very different ministry. So we are committed to continue to provide stories and skills and strategies and tools that are working in small churches all over the globe.
Today, we’ve got a special episode for you. We’re going to go ahead and drop into last weekend’s children and youth ministry conference. And what you’re going to be hearing is the Main Stage Talk where we began talking about leaving a legacy and how small churches, what’s required, but also how small churches are leaving a legacy and what this could mean for your church as well.
So enjoy a little bit of a sneak peek into last week’s conference. Hey, we are alive. Welcome to the small church Kidman and youth ministry conference 2024. We are so excited. You’re here. Just coming in, welcome, welcome, welcome. And and just, we’re just so happy you’re here. Tell us in the chat where you’re from. And if you’re in, what time it is by you. We were talking about this on the pre-show. Like, it’s 7:30 in the morning by me when I got on, so it’s 8:00, and Michelle off in Ireland. It’s like 3:30. So let us know where you’re from. We would love to know that.
So, before we get started, I just want to do some quick introductions and a couple announcements and then we’ll dive into our first Mainstage Talk talking about a legacy ministry, how to have a legacy ministry in your small church. But my name is Laurie Graham, and I founded the Small Church Network and we have a whole team of people who make all this run. You’ll hear more about us and everybody later, but Shineka, you want to just introduce yourself and where you’re from and what you’re doing with the conference today?
Shineka Dixon 2:08
Sure. I’m Shineka Dixon. I am from Yorktown, Virginia on the East Coast. I am helping to moderate, help to be a part of any of the things on mainstage and staying connected and networking so I can meet everybody.
Laurie Graham 2:28
Awesome. And Amy. Hi, everybody.
Amy Satterfield 2:31
My name is Amy Satterfield, I live in Fayetteville, Tennessee, which is right at the Tennessee Alabama state line. And I’m also moderating for speakers today and supporting our moderators, and then helping out anything we need on the mainstage just to fill in the gaps. So it’s going to be an amazing day.
Laurie Graham 2:48
Awesome. So this conference, if you’re brand new to us, is set up [where] we do some things on the main stage. And then we have breakouts all day. At the end of this, at the end of this talk, I will give you a little bit of an introduction and how to… how to work around in RingCentral here, but I want to wait till the end because right now you’re here.
Like, you’re here right now, we’re all just right here. We don’t have to worry about anything. We don’t have to worry about links. We don’t have to worry about bingo. We don’t have to worry about how to navigate the platform. We don’t even have to worry about snacks yet because we’re not hungry yet. Because we just sat down, you know. So I just want to just be here right now.
And if this is your first conference with us, welcome. If this is… if you’ve been in multiple conferences, welcome back. We value you so much in our community, all of you. Like, I really believe that God has brought you here on purpose, on time. You know, a lot of times we talk about Esther in the Bible and “for such a time as this.” And we think of it as like these big things [or] these [far] off missions. What if it was right now? I don’t usually cry this early in a conference. Okay, what kind of day is [this] going to be? But what if this was the time? What if we are all here right now for such a time as this?
What if today, God’s going to do some transformation? What if today, there’s going to be an idea sparked or a dream reawakened? What if today, there’s going to be an illumination of something that needs to change or something to let go of? What if today, God just wants you to feel loved and beloved? So, I would like to go into today like that. Like, “For such a time as this, we are here.” We are here right now. So, let’s embrace it. And let’s count on God giving us what we need, maybe not what we expect. Maybe we’re going to have some tech issues. Maybe there’s going to be speakers you don’t like—it happens. Maybe you’re gonna find my voice annoying—that has happened too, okay, and that’s okay.
What if we don’t get what we thought we would get but we get better? Because I really want to expect that today really is a day for such a time as this, even if your computer crashes, even if your kids run in the room, even if you are caretaking your elderly father with dementia in the next room, okay? What if this was for such a time as this? So, my talks today, we’re talking about building a legacy ministry. And it’s actually a series of talks. And we will kind of unpack different things at different parts. But I just wanted… I was trying to think of a metaphor for today. And like, what is a legacy ministry? And of course, the first thing that pops in my mind is like a ripple in a pond. You know, like, we want to be these ripples. And I thought, “No, I don’t want to be a ripple, those ripples like, fade out.” Ripples are not legacies. Legacies last—they outlast.
Legacy is more like, you know, planting that seed and watching not just a tree grow, but a forest, an entire ecosystem. That’s a legacy. A legacy isn’t just a ripple. So, could we have a legacy ministry in our small churches? Like, what does that even look like when it comes to children’s ministry? You know, kids’ ministry, youth ministry, and we talk about leaving a legacy, like, “they’re the future,” right? Okay. And I want to say it’s even more than that. But you know that most of us don’t leave legacies. Not most of us in the room, but most of us on the planet.
Most of the people that God created on this planet, in His image, don’t even think they have the capacity to leave a legacy. What? What? You not only have a capacity [to] leave a legacy, you have a calling to leave a legacy. This shouldn’t be the norm. Children’s ministries all over the planet, youth ministries, we should be leaving legacies everywhere. It shouldn’t be the exception. It should be the norm. And so that’s what we’re going to talk about.
We’re going to talk about a legacy ministry. But to talk about a legacy ministry today, so what is a legacy? I… and please, like, pop in the chat if you have other ideas of what a legacy is, because a lot of times we think of legacies, we think of money, which we’ll kind of talk about too, but legacies are so much more than that, so much more than that. To me, a legacy is sustainable. It lasts when you’re gone. Not only does it last when you’re gone, but it’s sustainable. Like, it can, it can continue without your presence, without you being there. So we think about sustainability in the environment, like, “what’s sustainable,” right? So sustainability and legacy is [that] it lasts when you’re gone. The vision is bigger than you. In order for, for ministry, to be sustainable, for ministry to be a legacy ministry that’s sustainable, it also needs structure. Like, it can’t just be built on a personality. A legacy is also transformational.
A legacy transforms, it does something, it has an impact. And I would like to say that a legacy ministry is God-infused. A lot of times we think about ministries as being scripture-infused, or “founded on Scripture,” and I love the Bible. Please hear me. But you can have a scripture-infused ministry that is not God-infused. Because I’m going to tell you, people can know Scripture, children can grow up with Bible verses memorized and never experience God. Never experience the love of God, never experience a transformation of God. Scripture, of course, is part of what we’re doing. But a legacy ministry is God-infused. If you encounter [the] living God, you are changed. If you encounter Scripture, sometimes you’re changed. If you encounter the living God through Scripture, that’s even better, right? I hear Angela Mark’s like, “shout out,” okay, because this is so true. But we’ve got to encounter God. So a legacy ministry is sustainable. It goes on long after you’re gone. It is transformational. It’s God-infused. Scripture-infused? Yes. But also God-infused. There’s an experience of, of, of meeting the living God. Okay.
And I’m also going to say this: legacy ministries are relational. I don’t just mean they’re friendly. I mean, they are 100% relational. And they value people and all people as God’s creation, as God’s kids. How many times have you looked at this beautiful sunset and thought, “Oh my gosh, God is so amazing”? I connect with God in nature. Like, how do you connect with God? Some people connect with God in quiet, in nature, when they’re walking, through movement, through dance. Like, how do you connect with God? Like, just drop it in the chat, “What helps you connect with God?” Okay, because for me, oftentimes, it’s nature. I’ll even see this little tiny flower like, coming up through a crack in the desert, because I live in the desert.
And I’ll be like, “Oh, look at God. God is here. That is amazing,” right? How about we look at that sunset and we think, “Wow, that sunset is amazing. Look at God’s creation.” That’s even better. Can we start looking at people that way? Like, “Look at that person God has created.” You guys, that’s the magnificence of God. God put His essence into His people. Not just the people who are behaving, not just the people who love Scripture—into all His people.
Can we value people that way? “Wow, that sunset is amazing.” That doesn’t hold a candle to humans, to people. So often, I think as Christians these days, we look at humans as a nuisance. You know, people in ministry will even say, “Ministry [would] be great if it wasn’t for the people.” I hate that phrase. Don’t say that to me. Ministry is people. Legacy ministries are sustainable. They are transformational. And they are relational, relational, to the, to the nth degree.
They value people, all people. People don’t get in the way. When kids behave, they’re not in the way. When when your volunteers don’t do what you want, they’re not in the way—they are the ministry. So can we build this legacy ministry? And I will say this, that we were called to learn in community, this community right here. When I talk about being relational, this is also part of it. God ordained us to desire and crave connection and belonging. You know that in your own heart, in your own heart?
Laurie Graham 11:51
We’ve got to recognize that in every human we meet, every single human, that is God’s creation. So let’s talk about small churches. Can a small church have a legacy? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yes, yes. A small church of 20, by the way, how big is your church? If you feel like dropping numbers, you totally can in the chat. If that, if that stresses you out, don’t do it. We celebrate small numbers here. Like, we’re on the stage saying, “You got 20 people in your church. Amen. Rock on.” We have micro-churches in here. We have like, the multi-church site plants, like, maybe there’s a big church, but there’s small churches around it.
We do have larger churches who follow us, too. But what I want you to know is that if you’re in a church of 20, you have tons of company in here. If you’re in a church of 50, you have tons of company in here. If you’re in a church of 80, you have tons of company in here. We actually celebrate that because that, honestly, that’s the Jesus kind of ministry. Jesus did not begin to build a huge church. Can a small church have a huge impact? Absolutely. It can leave a legacy.
There’s a church in the Appalachians, a very poor, poverty-stricken area. I heard the pastor speak at a conference I was at. They really do these things with shoe boxes for kids around the world, you guys. They like, it’s huge. They do thousands, [of boxes]. Okay, I know churches of thousands who don’t do that. And they literally have this desire to reach children. They’re an older congregation. They want to make a difference in the lives of children. That’s not the only thing they did, but it’s amazing.
And we have a church in our community in Minneapolis who started a, a Montessori school that’s Afro-American-centered, especially for boys. Like, amazing. That is legacy. Adrian’s here from Oklahoma. I’m going to cry. He’s here from Oklahoma, because their tiny little church did this huge thing in the state of Oklahoma for foster families.
These are legacy things that make a difference. You know, a lot of small churches who find us are scared they’re going to die. They’re scared they’re going to close the door. “If we don’t get more younger families, our doors are going to close. We have dwindled since COVID,” right? Like, there’s, there’s this feeling like we could, we could, we could die. “Our church could die.” And I get that fear. But I want to tell you, that shouldn’t be the fear. Legacy is what happens when we’re gone. Legacy is what happens when we are gone.
Our local church bodies do not hold the church together; Jesus Christ does. Local church bodies will die. They will transition. We see big churches fall. We see small churches fall. We see small churches close their doors. We see new ministries spring up. This is okay. It does not affect your personal legacy. It does not affect your church’s legacy. Small churches can leave a legacy, a huge legacy. There are three things that we’re going to talk about today in building a legacy ministry and growing a legacy ministry.
One is we’re going to talk about bringing a legacy mindset. Okay. The other is we’re going to talk about big, I mean, legacy people. And the third is we’re going to talk about building legacy programs. So, these are the three things you’re going to hear throughout the day: “bring a legacy mindset,” “become a legacy people,” and “build legacy programs.” So, I promise we’re going to get to the program part of it. Okay. But I want to tell you, the mindset comes first, and it is foundational. And you cannot become a legacy person or build a legacy program without a legacy mindset.
I’m going to talk about a couple of shifts that really need to happen if we do want to have these legacy ministries that last beyond when we’re gone, that are sustainable, that are transformational, that value people, that are relational. And the biggest thing is, [this] might be a little bit of an “ouch” for all of us here, including myself. We have got to stop blaming everything and everyone else. We’ve got to stop blaming our lack. “Well, if we only had more families, we could pour into them. If we only had volunteers that showed up. If we only had more kids. If we only had people with vision. If we only had other leaders to help me because I’m doing it all. If we only had more skill,” thinking even of your own inadequacy, “if we only… if we only…” We’ve got to stop blaming that. That is not—none of that is required to leave a legacy. Jesus Christ left a legacy.
How in the world did he do that? With no building, no funds, no reliable volunteers at all? He left a legacy. And by the way, if you remember my illustration at the beginning of like the ripples in the pond, Jesus Christ did not do ripples in the pond. It was like the seed and the forest kept growing. Thousands of years later, look at the church that is based on Jesus Christ. We are also called to leave a legacy. We don’t need all these [things]. We’ve got to stop blaming everything. There’s a little boy, I believe it was in Cleveland, Ohio. I remember the story from my childhood. And he wanted to give a blanket to [a] homeless person. And he asked his mom to take him out. My gosh, what a teary day today.
So sorry for those of you who are emotionally like, “freaking out.” This little boy wanted to give a blanket to [a] homeless person downtown. You guys, it started this whole campaign. You know the stories, right? So it eventually became this huge ministry where all these people were taking blankets to the homeless people downtown in Cleveland, Ohio, [who were] freezing. And it started with this little boy. Now, if you think that is the exception, I want to say this is the mindset shift: that should not be the exception. That is a legacy. There was a young girl recently, I saw a Reel or something on Instagram or Facebook. You’ve probably seen it. She was in her 20s and she died, I believe [from] brain cancer.
She left this post about how she lived her life. You guys, if anybody had things or complained about and blamed it was her. She left this posting, “I decided to live my life. I am grateful for what I had.” And that post, that little Instagram post or Facebook post or Reel or whatever it was, that literally is changing people’s lives. People talk about it all the time. We have got to stop blaming our lack. That is not a legacy mindset. People who leave legacies don’t whine about what they don’t have. Now, I realize it’s real. And we do make space for that. We absolutely will talk about that during this conference: lack of families, lack of volunteers. There are skills and things that we can do. We can make a change in our church cultures along those lines. We can find more kids, we’re going to show you how.
But the mindset is what I want you to get rid of. Those lack of things do not keep us from leaving a legacy. Another thing I would really love it if we could quit blaming our culture. Okay? Jesus’s culture wasn’t that great either. “Our churches are not dying because parents value soccer over church.” I’m just going to tell you, that’s not it. The fact that people work on Sundays and Sundays are not sacred anymore, that is not something to blame for our lack of action and influence and impact. Do you know what the culture was like with Jesus? Disabled people were left on the sides of roads, begging. Women were property. And children were less than that. Jesus left a legacy. He did not blame his culture. “I can’t do this. We’re failing because children are not treated well.”
Do you ever wonder why, you know, when he said, “Let the children come to Me,” it seems like such a sweet thing? You guys, the reason that made the Bible is because that was so counter-culture. I don’t know if you know how children and women, [and] marginalized people were treated back then. Okay. But that was shocking. “Let the children come to Me.” How about this? “Let those misbehaving youth come to me. Let those kids with ADHD who cannot sit still in the church, let them come to me. Let those volunteers who are struggling and can’t show up and their lives are a mess, let them come to me.” That is relational ministry. Now, I’m also not saying we don’t have skills to help you, help you understand how to have better classroom management, okay? I’m not saying that. We do have skills. Because this leads us into being legacy people, which are not just people who believe things, [but] they’re people who do things. And we’ll get to that in the next session.
And if you feel like you have very little, good, you have very little. That’s how God works. You’ve got a seed. Whether or not you have a building, whether or not you have skills, whether or not you know how to teach, you have a seed, because Jesus Christ is in you, because we were created in God’s image. We all have a seed. Do you see that? That we all are called to leave a legacy? Soccer is not the problem. Sunday school attendance is not the problem. The behavior of the kids is not the problem. In fact, I would say there is no problem, there is opportunity. We don’t even have to think about what problems we have. We just look at the opportunities and go toward them with God. With God. In these shifts, I just want to say two things. This mindset shift leads us here.
Laurie Graham 21:48
Number one, recognizing that what we have is enough, and it’s more than enough, because that is how God works. Whatever you have right now—kids, building, funds, no funds, your own inadequacy—whatever you have is enough. In fact, it’s more than enough. Please, visit Rebecca Herring’s talk today. If you’re able to get the VIP bundle, get all the replays. You’re going to want to… you’re going to want to watch, and listen, and participate with Rebecca Herring, okay? Because she’s talking about how what she knew and loved—a little hobby in sewing—became an amazing ministry with youth and teens. Okay, we need to recognize that what we have is enough, and it is more than enough to do exactly what God’s called us to do. Okay, this is a change in the mindset.
Laurie Graham 22:35
The other thing is, we need to recognize that God is at work right now, in us, through us, and around us. In our lack, in our need, in our inadequacy, in our culture, God is at work. But if we don’t remove the blame, it makes us stuck. It makes us stuck. Now, if you want to start a campaign in your city to push against the soccer clubs, feel free. Maybe that’s your calling, I totally get that. I’m not saying that we just, you know, also just lay over, you know what I mean? And just say, “Oh, culture, override us.” I’m not saying that. But what I am saying is we cannot blame the culture for our ministries being stalled, where they’re stuck.
We’ve got to, we’ve got to get… let go of that, because if Jesus Christ could do what he did in the midst of his culture, we can be a light in the midst of our culture. But it does start with mindset. It starts with recognizing that what we have is enough, and also recognizing that God is at work. Stop blaming everything and everyone. And I do, too, please understand. Like, I catch myself like, “Oh, wait a minute.” There’s a… there’s a responsibility that we can bear in a good way, not a heavy responsibility, not a weight. If you want to think of a weight that’s going to pull you under, it’s blaming things. It’s… it’s blaming the culture, blaming the kids. That is a weight that’s going to pull you under. But if you think of our responsibility to partner with God as an opportunity to be in his yoke, it is mind-blowing. It is mind-blowing to think of what God could do now.
Laurie Graham 24:05
Just because I know everybody’s like, “Yeah, I mean, this is… this is good. This is really good. This is all about mindset.” I just want to give you a little bit, a little bit of history, a little bit of information, because we’re going to go into programming and, you know, becoming legacy and people and everything. And by the way, the 24 breakout sessions today, you guys, they’re so good. They’re so good. You’ve got to see Sunny Brown. You’ve got to see RJ. You’ve got to see Christy Richardson talking about sensory-friendly environments. You’ve got to see Heather talking about “Scripture Matters.” You’ve got to see these people. Yes, but we also need to breathe, okay, and just know that God’s going to meet us where we are.
Laurie Graham 24:41
Does anybody here know the history of Sunday school? Okay, the reason I want to talk about Sunday school is because I want to… I want you to know you’re going to get really good practical stuff here, not just mindset. We’re not just going to “rah-rah” it and like, “name it, claim it,” and put “Jesus frosting” on, okay? You’re also going to get some practical stuff, but I want to talk about Sunday school for a minute because this is a big worry of people: “Well, people are not coming to Sunday school anymore.” Now, some of your Sunday schools are like, growing like mad. But in some places, there are places where people are really struggling in Sunday school and the numbers are down.
Laurie Graham 25:11
Sunday school started during the Industrial Revolution, when kids were working 50 hours a week in factories and were illiterate. The church said, “Oh, there’s a need, we should meet this need. Let’s teach kids how to… how to… how to… how to read.” “When can we do this?” “We can do this on Sunday because we’re not working.” So we’re going to bring kids in, and in the… in that umbrella of saying “these kids need this,” that’s where Sunday school came up. Okay. Sunday school isn’t ordained by Jesus Christ. Sunday school is not in the Bible, that we have to do all of our teaching on Sundays. So, when I tell people, “You actually don’t need Sunday school to do discipleship. You can meditate on God’s word day and night. You didn’t have a program that’s totally other, totally different.”
Laurie Graham 25:58
The goal isn’t Sunday school. The goal is transformation. Experiencing God. Teaching truth. Living a life here on Earth that is heaven on earth, right? That’s the goal. It does not have to happen in the box. So, Sunday school’s a box. This is what I’m going to tell you: if the box works for you, that’s great. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with Sunday school. I personally like Sunday school. Okay, I love people who love Sunday school. If the box is working, that’s great. But the box is the venue. Please hear me. The box. The box is just a box. It’s not the goal. And it’s not the transformation. It’s just the box. If the Sunday school box works for you, that’s great. Okay, I just got to put this caveat up, because this is from the “Sunday school girl.” I thought of you when I just said, like, “we don’t need Sunday school right now.” I’m laughing like, “Oh my gosh, it’s… wait another year.”
Laurie Graham 26:50
The goal isn’t Sunday school. The goal is transformation. And D]ana Henson is one of those people that uses Sunday school to lead people toward transformation. But it’s a box. It’s a tool. Sometimes we need to change the box. Sometimes we need to morph the box. Sometimes we need to throw out the box. But we don’t throw out the core. And the core is transformational ministry. It’s this legacy. But it’s a ministry that will sustain long after you’re gone. By the way, that gets rid of the pride issue. We want a ministry that’s going to be there without me. It’s not built on my personality or my work, even my artwork. It’s going to be sustainable. A legacy ministry is transformational. It is God-infused. A legacy ministry is 100% relational. People come first, always, and all people, all people.
Laurie Graham 27:42
Well, I hope you enjoyed that sneak peek into last week’s conference. That was the Kids’ and Youth Ministry Conference that happens at the end of April. If you’re not familiar with our free online conferences, we do free online conferences pretty much quarterly. At the end of January is typically a women’s ministry theme. At the end of April, the last Saturday of the month, is children and youth ministry. At the end of July, we’ve typically done a conference called “Married to the Pastor” for those who are married to pastors—the spouses. [It’s a] super incredible time there.
And then in the fall, at the end of September, we’ve got one coming up that’s all about volunteers and team building. And we really hope you can make it to our conferences. The replays are always available for purchase. But I just got to tell you, when you make it live, it’s a pretty incredible experience. People get connected with people all over the globe, and sometimes even in their own town. They find people in their state, in their city, you know, one country away or even across the ocean. It’s an incredible time of not just encouragement, but sharing what works. It’s small-church people talking to small-church people, because what we are about is leaving a legacy.
Laurie Graham 28:51
Hey, and before you go, if you find this podcast encouraging, would you please do me a favor today? Please give us some stars and leave a review for this podcast. The more reviews we have on the podcast, the more people actually hear about this podcast. So, please take a minute just to leave a review. If you’re not sure how, you can actually go into the show notes. Maggie has a link dropped in there. It’s a pretty easy click to leave a review on this podcast, and it would be the world. Until next week. Be a light.
Hey, this is Laurie Graham. Welcome to the Small Church Ministry podcast.
Laurie Graham 0:15
Hey, welcome back to the Small Church Ministry podcast, where we not only believe that God works in small numbers, but we see it and we see it every single day. So we love small churches. We know that small church ministry is not less ministry than larger churches, but it is a very different ministry. So we are committed to continue to provide stories and skills and strategies and tools that are working in small churches all over the globe.
Today, we’ve got a special episode for you. We’re going to go ahead and drop into last weekend’s children and youth ministry conference. And what you’re going to be hearing is the Main Stage Talk where we began talking about leaving a legacy and how small churches, what’s required, but also how small churches are leaving a legacy and what this could mean for your church as well.
So enjoy a little bit of a sneak peek into last week’s conference. Hey, we are alive. Welcome to the small church Kidman and youth ministry conference 2024. We are so excited. You’re here. Just coming in, welcome, welcome, welcome. And and just, we’re just so happy you’re here. Tell us in the chat where you’re from. And if you’re in, what time it is by you. We were talking about this on the pre-show. Like, it’s 7:30 in the morning by me when I got on, so it’s 8:00, and Michelle off in Ireland. It’s like 3:30. So let us know where you’re from. We would love to know that.
So, before we get started, I just want to do some quick introductions and a couple announcements and then we’ll dive into our first Mainstage Talk talking about a legacy ministry, how to have a legacy ministry in your small church. But my name is Laurie Graham, and I founded the Small Church Network and we have a whole team of people who make all this run. You’ll hear more about us and everybody later, but Shineka, you want to just introduce yourself and where you’re from and what you’re doing with the conference today?
Shineka Dixon 2:08
Sure. I’m Shineka Dixon. I am from Yorktown, Virginia on the East Coast. I am helping to moderate, help to be a part of any of the things on mainstage and staying connected and networking so I can meet everybody.
Laurie Graham 2:28
Awesome. And Amy. Hi, everybody.
Amy Satterfield 2:31
My name is Amy Satterfield, I live in Fayetteville, Tennessee, which is right at the Tennessee Alabama state line. And I’m also moderating for speakers today and supporting our moderators, and then helping out anything we need on the mainstage just to fill in the gaps. So it’s going to be an amazing day.
Laurie Graham 2:48
Awesome. So this conference, if you’re brand new to us, is set up [where] we do some things on the main stage. And then we have breakouts all day. At the end of this, at the end of this talk, I will give you a little bit of an introduction and how to… how to work around in RingCentral here, but I want to wait till the end because right now you’re here.
Like, you’re here right now, we’re all just right here. We don’t have to worry about anything. We don’t have to worry about links. We don’t have to worry about bingo. We don’t have to worry about how to navigate the platform. We don’t even have to worry about snacks yet because we’re not hungry yet. Because we just sat down, you know. So I just want to just be here right now.
And if this is your first conference with us, welcome. If this is… if you’ve been in multiple conferences, welcome back. We value you so much in our community, all of you. Like, I really believe that God has brought you here on purpose, on time. You know, a lot of times we talk about Esther in the Bible and “for such a time as this.” And we think of it as like these big things [or] these [far] off missions. What if it was right now? I don’t usually cry this early in a conference. Okay, what kind of day is [this] going to be? But what if this was the time? What if we are all here right now for such a time as this?
What if today, God’s going to do some transformation? What if today, there’s going to be an idea sparked or a dream reawakened? What if today, there’s going to be an illumination of something that needs to change or something to let go of? What if today, God just wants you to feel loved and beloved? So, I would like to go into today like that. Like, “For such a time as this, we are here.” We are here right now. So, let’s embrace it. And let’s count on God giving us what we need, maybe not what we expect. Maybe we’re going to have some tech issues. Maybe there’s going to be speakers you don’t like—it happens. Maybe you’re gonna find my voice annoying—that has happened too, okay, and that’s okay.
What if we don’t get what we thought we would get but we get better? Because I really want to expect that today really is a day for such a time as this, even if your computer crashes, even if your kids run in the room, even if you are caretaking your elderly father with dementia in the next room, okay? What if this was for such a time as this? So, my talks today, we’re talking about building a legacy ministry. And it’s actually a series of talks. And we will kind of unpack different things at different parts. But I just wanted… I was trying to think of a metaphor for today. And like, what is a legacy ministry? And of course, the first thing that pops in my mind is like a ripple in a pond. You know, like, we want to be these ripples. And I thought, “No, I don’t want to be a ripple, those ripples like, fade out.” Ripples are not legacies. Legacies last—they outlast.
Legacy is more like, you know, planting that seed and watching not just a tree grow, but a forest, an entire ecosystem. That’s a legacy. A legacy isn’t just a ripple. So, could we have a legacy ministry in our small churches? Like, what does that even look like when it comes to children’s ministry? You know, kids’ ministry, youth ministry, and we talk about leaving a legacy, like, “they’re the future,” right? Okay. And I want to say it’s even more than that. But you know that most of us don’t leave legacies. Not most of us in the room, but most of us on the planet.
Most of the people that God created on this planet, in His image, don’t even think they have the capacity to leave a legacy. What? What? You not only have a capacity [to] leave a legacy, you have a calling to leave a legacy. This shouldn’t be the norm. Children’s ministries all over the planet, youth ministries, we should be leaving legacies everywhere. It shouldn’t be the exception. It should be the norm. And so that’s what we’re going to talk about.
We’re going to talk about a legacy ministry. But to talk about a legacy ministry today, so what is a legacy? I… and please, like, pop in the chat if you have other ideas of what a legacy is, because a lot of times we think of legacies, we think of money, which we’ll kind of talk about too, but legacies are so much more than that, so much more than that. To me, a legacy is sustainable. It lasts when you’re gone. Not only does it last when you’re gone, but it’s sustainable. Like, it can, it can continue without your presence, without you being there. So we think about sustainability in the environment, like, “what’s sustainable,” right? So sustainability and legacy is [that] it lasts when you’re gone. The vision is bigger than you. In order for, for ministry, to be sustainable, for ministry to be a legacy ministry that’s sustainable, it also needs structure. Like, it can’t just be built on a personality. A legacy is also transformational.
A legacy transforms, it does something, it has an impact. And I would like to say that a legacy ministry is God-infused. A lot of times we think about ministries as being scripture-infused, or “founded on Scripture,” and I love the Bible. Please hear me. But you can have a scripture-infused ministry that is not God-infused. Because I’m going to tell you, people can know Scripture, children can grow up with Bible verses memorized and never experience God. Never experience the love of God, never experience a transformation of God. Scripture, of course, is part of what we’re doing. But a legacy ministry is God-infused. If you encounter [the] living God, you are changed. If you encounter Scripture, sometimes you’re changed. If you encounter the living God through Scripture, that’s even better, right? I hear Angela Mark’s like, “shout out,” okay, because this is so true. But we’ve got to encounter God. So a legacy ministry is sustainable. It goes on long after you’re gone. It is transformational. It’s God-infused. Scripture-infused? Yes. But also God-infused. There’s an experience of, of, of meeting the living God. Okay.
And I’m also going to say this: legacy ministries are relational. I don’t just mean they’re friendly. I mean, they are 100% relational. And they value people and all people as God’s creation, as God’s kids. How many times have you looked at this beautiful sunset and thought, “Oh my gosh, God is so amazing”? I connect with God in nature. Like, how do you connect with God? Some people connect with God in quiet, in nature, when they’re walking, through movement, through dance. Like, how do you connect with God? Like, just drop it in the chat, “What helps you connect with God?” Okay, because for me, oftentimes, it’s nature. I’ll even see this little tiny flower like, coming up through a crack in the desert, because I live in the desert.
And I’ll be like, “Oh, look at God. God is here. That is amazing,” right? How about we look at that sunset and we think, “Wow, that sunset is amazing. Look at God’s creation.” That’s even better. Can we start looking at people that way? Like, “Look at that person God has created.” You guys, that’s the magnificence of God. God put His essence into His people. Not just the people who are behaving, not just the people who love Scripture—into all His people.
Can we value people that way? “Wow, that sunset is amazing.” That doesn’t hold a candle to humans, to people. So often, I think as Christians these days, we look at humans as a nuisance. You know, people in ministry will even say, “Ministry [would] be great if it wasn’t for the people.” I hate that phrase. Don’t say that to me. Ministry is people. Legacy ministries are sustainable. They are transformational. And they are relational, relational, to the, to the nth degree.
They value people, all people. People don’t get in the way. When kids behave, they’re not in the way. When when your volunteers don’t do what you want, they’re not in the way—they are the ministry. So can we build this legacy ministry? And I will say this, that we were called to learn in community, this community right here. When I talk about being relational, this is also part of it. God ordained us to desire and crave connection and belonging. You know that in your own heart, in your own heart?
Laurie Graham 11:51
We’ve got to recognize that in every human we meet, every single human, that is God’s creation. So let’s talk about small churches. Can a small church have a legacy? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yes, yes. A small church of 20, by the way, how big is your church? If you feel like dropping numbers, you totally can in the chat. If that, if that stresses you out, don’t do it. We celebrate small numbers here. Like, we’re on the stage saying, “You got 20 people in your church. Amen. Rock on.” We have micro-churches in here. We have like, the multi-church site plants, like, maybe there’s a big church, but there’s small churches around it.
We do have larger churches who follow us, too. But what I want you to know is that if you’re in a church of 20, you have tons of company in here. If you’re in a church of 50, you have tons of company in here. If you’re in a church of 80, you have tons of company in here. We actually celebrate that because that, honestly, that’s the Jesus kind of ministry. Jesus did not begin to build a huge church. Can a small church have a huge impact? Absolutely. It can leave a legacy.
There’s a church in the Appalachians, a very poor, poverty-stricken area. I heard the pastor speak at a conference I was at. They really do these things with shoe boxes for kids around the world, you guys. They like, it’s huge. They do thousands, [of boxes]. Okay, I know churches of thousands who don’t do that. And they literally have this desire to reach children. They’re an older congregation. They want to make a difference in the lives of children. That’s not the only thing they did, but it’s amazing.
And we have a church in our community in Minneapolis who started a, a Montessori school that’s Afro-American-centered, especially for boys. Like, amazing. That is legacy. Adrian’s here from Oklahoma. I’m going to cry. He’s here from Oklahoma, because their tiny little church did this huge thing in the state of Oklahoma for foster families.
These are legacy things that make a difference. You know, a lot of small churches who find us are scared they’re going to die. They’re scared they’re going to close the door. “If we don’t get more younger families, our doors are going to close. We have dwindled since COVID,” right? Like, there’s, there’s this feeling like we could, we could, we could die. “Our church could die.” And I get that fear. But I want to tell you, that shouldn’t be the fear. Legacy is what happens when we’re gone. Legacy is what happens when we are gone.
Our local church bodies do not hold the church together; Jesus Christ does. Local church bodies will die. They will transition. We see big churches fall. We see small churches fall. We see small churches close their doors. We see new ministries spring up. This is okay. It does not affect your personal legacy. It does not affect your church’s legacy. Small churches can leave a legacy, a huge legacy. There are three things that we’re going to talk about today in building a legacy ministry and growing a legacy ministry.
One is we’re going to talk about bringing a legacy mindset. Okay. The other is we’re going to talk about big, I mean, legacy people. And the third is we’re going to talk about building legacy programs. So, these are the three things you’re going to hear throughout the day: “bring a legacy mindset,” “become a legacy people,” and “build legacy programs.” So, I promise we’re going to get to the program part of it. Okay. But I want to tell you, the mindset comes first, and it is foundational. And you cannot become a legacy person or build a legacy program without a legacy mindset.
I’m going to talk about a couple of shifts that really need to happen if we do want to have these legacy ministries that last beyond when we’re gone, that are sustainable, that are transformational, that value people, that are relational. And the biggest thing is, [this] might be a little bit of an “ouch” for all of us here, including myself. We have got to stop blaming everything and everyone else. We’ve got to stop blaming our lack. “Well, if we only had more families, we could pour into them. If we only had volunteers that showed up. If we only had more kids. If we only had people with vision. If we only had other leaders to help me because I’m doing it all. If we only had more skill,” thinking even of your own inadequacy, “if we only… if we only…” We’ve got to stop blaming that. That is not—none of that is required to leave a legacy. Jesus Christ left a legacy.
How in the world did he do that? With no building, no funds, no reliable volunteers at all? He left a legacy. And by the way, if you remember my illustration at the beginning of like the ripples in the pond, Jesus Christ did not do ripples in the pond. It was like the seed and the forest kept growing. Thousands of years later, look at the church that is based on Jesus Christ. We are also called to leave a legacy. We don’t need all these [things]. We’ve got to stop blaming everything. There’s a little boy, I believe it was in Cleveland, Ohio. I remember the story from my childhood. And he wanted to give a blanket to [a] homeless person. And he asked his mom to take him out. My gosh, what a teary day today.
So sorry for those of you who are emotionally like, “freaking out.” This little boy wanted to give a blanket to [a] homeless person downtown. You guys, it started this whole campaign. You know the stories, right? So it eventually became this huge ministry where all these people were taking blankets to the homeless people downtown in Cleveland, Ohio, [who were] freezing. And it started with this little boy. Now, if you think that is the exception, I want to say this is the mindset shift: that should not be the exception. That is a legacy. There was a young girl recently, I saw a Reel or something on Instagram or Facebook. You’ve probably seen it. She was in her 20s and she died, I believe [from] brain cancer.
She left this post about how she lived her life. You guys, if anybody had things or complained about and blamed it was her. She left this posting, “I decided to live my life. I am grateful for what I had.” And that post, that little Instagram post or Facebook post or Reel or whatever it was, that literally is changing people’s lives. People talk about it all the time. We have got to stop blaming our lack. That is not a legacy mindset. People who leave legacies don’t whine about what they don’t have. Now, I realize it’s real. And we do make space for that. We absolutely will talk about that during this conference: lack of families, lack of volunteers. There are skills and things that we can do. We can make a change in our church cultures along those lines. We can find more kids, we’re going to show you how.
But the mindset is what I want you to get rid of. Those lack of things do not keep us from leaving a legacy. Another thing I would really love it if we could quit blaming our culture. Okay? Jesus’s culture wasn’t that great either. “Our churches are not dying because parents value soccer over church.” I’m just going to tell you, that’s not it. The fact that people work on Sundays and Sundays are not sacred anymore, that is not something to blame for our lack of action and influence and impact. Do you know what the culture was like with Jesus? Disabled people were left on the sides of roads, begging. Women were property. And children were less than that. Jesus left a legacy. He did not blame his culture. “I can’t do this. We’re failing because children are not treated well.”
Do you ever wonder why, you know, when he said, “Let the children come to Me,” it seems like such a sweet thing? You guys, the reason that made the Bible is because that was so counter-culture. I don’t know if you know how children and women, [and] marginalized people were treated back then. Okay. But that was shocking. “Let the children come to Me.” How about this? “Let those misbehaving youth come to me. Let those kids with ADHD who cannot sit still in the church, let them come to me. Let those volunteers who are struggling and can’t show up and their lives are a mess, let them come to me.” That is relational ministry. Now, I’m also not saying we don’t have skills to help you, help you understand how to have better classroom management, okay? I’m not saying that. We do have skills. Because this leads us into being legacy people, which are not just people who believe things, [but] they’re people who do things. And we’ll get to that in the next session.
And if you feel like you have very little, good, you have very little. That’s how God works. You’ve got a seed. Whether or not you have a building, whether or not you have skills, whether or not you know how to teach, you have a seed, because Jesus Christ is in you, because we were created in God’s image. We all have a seed. Do you see that? That we all are called to leave a legacy? Soccer is not the problem. Sunday school attendance is not the problem. The behavior of the kids is not the problem. In fact, I would say there is no problem, there is opportunity. We don’t even have to think about what problems we have. We just look at the opportunities and go toward them with God. With God. In these shifts, I just want to say two things. This mindset shift leads us here.
Laurie Graham 21:48
Number one, recognizing that what we have is enough, and it’s more than enough, because that is how God works. Whatever you have right now—kids, building, funds, no funds, your own inadequacy—whatever you have is enough. In fact, it’s more than enough. Please, visit Rebecca Herring’s talk today. If you’re able to get the VIP bundle, get all the replays. You’re going to want to… you’re going to want to watch, and listen, and participate with Rebecca Herring, okay? Because she’s talking about how what she knew and loved—a little hobby in sewing—became an amazing ministry with youth and teens. Okay, we need to recognize that what we have is enough, and it is more than enough to do exactly what God’s called us to do. Okay, this is a change in the mindset.
Laurie Graham 22:35
The other thing is, we need to recognize that God is at work right now, in us, through us, and around us. In our lack, in our need, in our inadequacy, in our culture, God is at work. But if we don’t remove the blame, it makes us stuck. It makes us stuck. Now, if you want to start a campaign in your city to push against the soccer clubs, feel free. Maybe that’s your calling, I totally get that. I’m not saying that we just, you know, also just lay over, you know what I mean? And just say, “Oh, culture, override us.” I’m not saying that. But what I am saying is we cannot blame the culture for our ministries being stalled, where they’re stuck.
We’ve got to, we’ve got to get… let go of that, because if Jesus Christ could do what he did in the midst of his culture, we can be a light in the midst of our culture. But it does start with mindset. It starts with recognizing that what we have is enough, and also recognizing that God is at work. Stop blaming everything and everyone. And I do, too, please understand. Like, I catch myself like, “Oh, wait a minute.” There’s a… there’s a responsibility that we can bear in a good way, not a heavy responsibility, not a weight. If you want to think of a weight that’s going to pull you under, it’s blaming things. It’s… it’s blaming the culture, blaming the kids. That is a weight that’s going to pull you under. But if you think of our responsibility to partner with God as an opportunity to be in his yoke, it is mind-blowing. It is mind-blowing to think of what God could do now.
Laurie Graham 24:05
Just because I know everybody’s like, “Yeah, I mean, this is… this is good. This is really good. This is all about mindset.” I just want to give you a little bit, a little bit of history, a little bit of information, because we’re going to go into programming and, you know, becoming legacy and people and everything. And by the way, the 24 breakout sessions today, you guys, they’re so good. They’re so good. You’ve got to see Sunny Brown. You’ve got to see RJ. You’ve got to see Christy Richardson talking about sensory-friendly environments. You’ve got to see Heather talking about “Scripture Matters.” You’ve got to see these people. Yes, but we also need to breathe, okay, and just know that God’s going to meet us where we are.
Laurie Graham 24:41
Does anybody here know the history of Sunday school? Okay, the reason I want to talk about Sunday school is because I want to… I want you to know you’re going to get really good practical stuff here, not just mindset. We’re not just going to “rah-rah” it and like, “name it, claim it,” and put “Jesus frosting” on, okay? You’re also going to get some practical stuff, but I want to talk about Sunday school for a minute because this is a big worry of people: “Well, people are not coming to Sunday school anymore.” Now, some of your Sunday schools are like, growing like mad. But in some places, there are places where people are really struggling in Sunday school and the numbers are down.
Laurie Graham 25:11
Sunday school started during the Industrial Revolution, when kids were working 50 hours a week in factories and were illiterate. The church said, “Oh, there’s a need, we should meet this need. Let’s teach kids how to… how to… how to… how to read.” “When can we do this?” “We can do this on Sunday because we’re not working.” So we’re going to bring kids in, and in the… in that umbrella of saying “these kids need this,” that’s where Sunday school came up. Okay. Sunday school isn’t ordained by Jesus Christ. Sunday school is not in the Bible, that we have to do all of our teaching on Sundays. So, when I tell people, “You actually don’t need Sunday school to do discipleship. You can meditate on God’s word day and night. You didn’t have a program that’s totally other, totally different.”
Laurie Graham 25:58
The goal isn’t Sunday school. The goal is transformation. Experiencing God. Teaching truth. Living a life here on Earth that is heaven on earth, right? That’s the goal. It does not have to happen in the box. So, Sunday school’s a box. This is what I’m going to tell you: if the box works for you, that’s great. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with Sunday school. I personally like Sunday school. Okay, I love people who love Sunday school. If the box is working, that’s great. But the box is the venue. Please hear me. The box. The box is just a box. It’s not the goal. And it’s not the transformation. It’s just the box. If the Sunday school box works for you, that’s great. Okay, I just got to put this caveat up, because this is from the “Sunday school girl.” I thought of you when I just said, like, “we don’t need Sunday school right now.” I’m laughing like, “Oh my gosh, it’s… wait another year.”
Laurie Graham 26:50
The goal isn’t Sunday school. The goal is transformation. And D]ana Henson is one of those people that uses Sunday school to lead people toward transformation. But it’s a box. It’s a tool. Sometimes we need to change the box. Sometimes we need to morph the box. Sometimes we need to throw out the box. But we don’t throw out the core. And the core is transformational ministry. It’s this legacy. But it’s a ministry that will sustain long after you’re gone. By the way, that gets rid of the pride issue. We want a ministry that’s going to be there without me. It’s not built on my personality or my work, even my artwork. It’s going to be sustainable. A legacy ministry is transformational. It is God-infused. A legacy ministry is 100% relational. People come first, always, and all people, all people.
Laurie Graham 27:42
Well, I hope you enjoyed that sneak peek into last week’s conference. That was the Kids’ and Youth Ministry Conference that happens at the end of April. If you’re not familiar with our free online conferences, we do free online conferences pretty much quarterly. At the end of January is typically a women’s ministry theme. At the end of April, the last Saturday of the month, is children and youth ministry. At the end of July, we’ve typically done a conference called “Married to the Pastor” for those who are married to pastors—the spouses. [It’s a] super incredible time there.
And then in the fall, at the end of September, we’ve got one coming up that’s all about volunteers and team building. And we really hope you can make it to our conferences. The replays are always available for purchase. But I just got to tell you, when you make it live, it’s a pretty incredible experience. People get connected with people all over the globe, and sometimes even in their own town. They find people in their state, in their city, you know, one country away or even across the ocean. It’s an incredible time of not just encouragement, but sharing what works. It’s small-church people talking to small-church people, because what we are about is leaving a legacy.
Laurie Graham 28:51
Hey, and before you go, if you find this podcast encouraging, would you please do me a favor today? Please give us some stars and leave a review for this podcast. The more reviews we have on the podcast, the more people actually hear about this podcast. So, please take a minute just to leave a review. If you’re not sure how, you can actually go into the show notes. Maggie has a link dropped in there. It’s a pretty easy click to leave a review on this podcast, and it would be the world. Until next week. Be a light.